Racism part II (no trash)

[Na$]

Sup dudes

Though I stilll am not really active in this zone, nor in SS,
I realized something when playing one day in TW. I saw DanyalDeno flying around with his Swastika banner and I had just seen the movie American History X. This movie was so controversial in America just for Edward Norton wearing this Swastika Tattoo on his body. Also other nazi dudes were wearing such stuff and than I was thinking...

howcome a movie can be controversial in countries just because of the sign and here in TW staff let people get away with it ? People werent allowed to see the movie on a lot of different places and it was " only " a movie.
A movie with big message to society saying that racism can cause a lot of psychological damages and fysical damages to people just because bad situations arise. Howcome that TW Staff allows such thing to happen while lil kids play this game also ? They see such symbols as if it was normal for people to wear those signs and maybe they think its cool to wear them too, so they might draw such signs on their schoolbanks etc.

I think Staff should reconsider their policy on racism banners and racism squadnames. Also the fake ones. I know that I was banned once for banning a guy because he had the name A.Hiler Jr. and some stupid squadname... ok he was not saying things in public, but does that really matter ? He is offensive to a lot of people, and for those who grew up with racism around, THEY know what I am talking about. We had lots of fights in real life for people being racist, and I am not proud of it, but its just a fact that in public " places" such things should be avoided and forbidden.

Who would you possibly harm when you forbid those banners and all racist related matters ? They are only meant to be provokive and offensive. I dont think DD is wearing it because he likes the looks of it, cause his banner is ugly anywayz.

And other folks... if you have something to add to this thread please do it, but spare me the crap talk and pro-white talk etc...
This is something serious as far as that can be in a game.

Peace out.

[Annux]

You care too much. Shut up and leave already. You've rehashed this subject on 3 forums, and 2 UBBs.

Stop letting yourself get offended and stop making us care or read your dribble.

[Mayo Inc.]

yeah for real shut up... stop trying to start trouble.

that job.. is taken.

[Dillusion]

hah...no comment

[Troll King]

Only on a forum where people worship Annux can someone be a bad guy for speaking out against racism.

[Annux]

Only because he has repeatedly said the same shit over and over again. He used to start the exact same topics (whining about Swastika banner) on CoT's forums.

I think he just copy and pastes his own shit, verbetum, every few months to see if we're paying attention.

Well we are, negro.

[Louis XV]

I don't see how wearing a "swastika" "banner" in a "space ship game" has anything to do with "racism."

Explain.

[Troll King]

If his message isn't getting through, then I don't think we are.

[Louis XV]

If you talk to the individual in question (DanyalDenyo) you will realize that his wearing a swastika banner does not mean that he is a "racist." It could mean any number of things:

1) he's simply trying to be an asshole by offending people who would like to censor every last idea or image on this planet that they find unpleasant. ignoring swastikas won't make them or the Holocaust go away.

2) he admires the ww2 german military. since he likes ww2 strategy games like Sudden Strike and constantly talks about how cool soviet tanks were, I'm more inclined to believe this one.

[pv=nrt]

i want a soviet tank. maybe then i could get a parking spot whenever i wanted one so i could get to class.

[Na$]

Well I will explain myself, I will try to keep it short.

1) Its true that I have had more posts on this subject in the past.
One of the questions you asked: "how does the swastika banner
alone stands for racism" or at least that is something you asked.
--> Its obvious that the swastika banner in the Western World has only be used for racism ideology since WW II. If you say its otherwise, you can name some events or people who had been or are wearing such symbol for "fun" or "something else". I cant name them cause they are not here for what I have seen. Ask a single person on the street for what it expresses now...


2) You think DD maybe admires the German strategy in WWII. Lol. How nice. Which strategy ? That it killed 6 millions of Jews ? And that it wanted one superior race, with all other forgein people eliminated ? Or that it somehow got to take over a big part of Europe, and including that, had been able to bomb a lot of big cities, also cities in my country ? That a lot of people had been starving to death, even in my country? And also we are getting quite bad when we are admiring a war... what kind of world is this then huh ? Myself for example, I admire people who are caring for other people. Killing Talibans is one thing, but caring for them is another.


3) This topic doenst have only to do with DD. As far as I can remember, I might have tried to provoke him once in a while for his banner, but I cant say he offended me or whatever. So its just not about DD, its about how Subspace or TW Staff's ideas are. If Priitk was black, all nazi related stuff would have been forbidden. Some people could ask now: well if nazi is forbidden, what about all the other... Thats true in a way, but we must begin somewhere. If you tolerate all, then whats the point of this game ? Its supposed to have fun. And a lot of people are not having fun when people can use the word negger because its not ******, people saying white power to me when I say DD is wearing a nazi banner. And when I am wearing the squadname Black Power and say something about the white nazis, people say to me: STFU you are wearing black power. Lol, but you didnt hear them when I was complaining about white power stuff.

Ok I am waiting for response from Louis XV.

- Na$

[Na$]

Oh and one thing... someone said on this forum that I am only trying to make a problem....

is that how u see me ? Some stupid ****** who is trying to make trouble ? It sounds like you want to go back to the past... like it was in America. Ever heard of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King ? They also started to make trouble, but not for no reason. You should read some history son, maybe only then you can understand why there are mostly black people living in ghetto's and mostly black people rejected for jobs etc. in Western Countries.

You think it's over ? Black = white ; everyone got the same oppurtunities ? Lol. That is because you are white!

"I have a dream that SS stops Racism"

[Na$]

I have to say: one good thing from staff: the word ****** is not tolerated on forums... (you know N * G G * R) you will see ******.

I got one question again:

1) People say to me: that word is not a bad word: Staff says: We cant do anything about it. Then why the hell is the word blocked from the forums then ?? lol.

2) For people wearing DD"s banner: try to get on admirable names such like Adolf Hitler. It's forbidden dude, you cant enter with it. For obvious' reasons.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Didn't you quit?

[Reepicheep]

Annux offends me cause hes a fucking white person.

[Reepicheep]

just think abotu Samuel L. Jackson, he would not tolerate racism. AND I WONT EITHER! FUCKING NAZI FUCK HEADS IMA KICK THER ASS!

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Na$
Oh and one thing... someone said on this forum that I am only trying to make a problem....

is that how u see me ? Some stupid ****** who is trying to make trouble ? It sounds like you want to go back to the past... like it was in America. Ever heard of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King ? They also started to make trouble, but not for no reason. You should read some history son, maybe only then you can understand why there are mostly black people living in ghetto's and mostly black people rejected for jobs etc. in Western Countries.

This is, hands down, the most retarded parallel I have ever seen drawn by anyone. Way to go Nas with a dollar sign! You show em how you're the Subspace civil rights leader!

Wait... no... you're... wait...

... you, causing problems in the forums is akin to... civil rights leaders in the... huh? I'm lost.

Is marching from Birmingham to Mariehamn, Finland involved? Can I lead the singing of "We Shall Overcome?"

[Reepicheep]

thats because black people are lazy, they say that on tv, I watch mtv and they just want big butts and drugs, they like to commit violence.

[Na$]

Concrete you are exactly making my point:

- I post 4 things about racism, the only things you say is:
"didnt you retire"
"whats the parralel between a and b"

--> does it matter how I try to tell things ? This thread is about racism, not about how I say things. You know what this means ?
Your white and you dont care. Dont read this then.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I'm saying that this is a ridiculous thread. I hardly ever agree with Annux, but he's got a point in saying that this topic has been hashed and re-hashed to death.

I'm white and I don't care? Way to make a sweeping generalization. I could delve into any number of humanitarian missions and service projects that I've been a part of, but that's not the point.

You started this thread because you watched a movie. Not to say that it isn't a medium that can be used to emotionally move someone, but COME ON. Were you seriously sitting there watching it, thinking "wow, this really has a deep link to someone wearing a banner in the spaceship game!"

I'll be the first one to say that I'm not a fan of people wearing a swastika banner. I think it's in horribly bad taste. I also think people with names like Oen Izan are in horribly bad taste. I treat these people accordingly, but I'm not about to tell either one that they can't do what they want. Call me an optimist, but I'm pretty sure that 95% of people out there will look at a name like "Oen Izan" (or someone flying the swastika banner, for that matter), pause for a second, make a judgement call that that person is at least somewhat dickish, and move on. You're making it sound like no one's ever heard of Nazi Germany before, and you're worried little Timmy is going to see Danyal wreck shop in base elim and immediately go scrawl a portrait of Himmler on his Trapper Keeper.

Grow up, seriously. As I've said, I'm not a proponent of the swastika banner, but (as was said earlier in the thread) the symbol isn't going anywhere. I don't care if you go on a 50-year crusade around the world, trying to obliterate any trace of the swastika, it's going to survive. Just because something bothers you doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be erased from the face of the Earth.

[Oen]

Originally posted by ConcreteSchlyrd
I'm saying that this is a ridiculous thread. I hardly ever agree with Annux, but he's got a point in saying that this topic has been hashed and re-hashed to death.

I'm white and I don't care? Way to make a sweeping generalization. I could delve into any number of humanitarian missions and service projects that I've been a part of, but that's not the point.

You started this thread because you watched a movie. Not to say that it isn't a medium that can be used to emotionally move someone, but COME ON. Were you seriously sitting there watching it, thinking "wow, this really has a deep link to someone wearing a banner in the spaceship game!"

I'll be the first one to say that I'm not a fan of people wearing a swastika banner. I think it's in horribly bad taste. I also think people with names like Oen Izan are in horribly bad taste. I treat these people accordingly, but I'm not about to tell either one that they can't do what they want. Call me an optimist, but I'm pretty sure that 95% of people out there will look at a name like "Oen Izan" (or someone flying the swastika banner, for that matter), pause for a second, make a judgement call that that person is at least somewhat dickish, and move on. You're making it sound like no one's ever heard of Nazi Germany before, and you're worried little Timmy is going to see Danyal wreck shop in base elim and immediately go scrawl a portrait of Himmler on his Trapper Keeper.

Grow up, seriously. As I've said, I'm not a proponent of the swastika banner, but (as was said earlier in the thread) the symbol isn't going anywhere. I don't care if you go on a 50-year crusade around the world, trying to obliterate any trace of the swastika, it's going to survive. Just because something bothers you doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be erased from the face of the Earth.

Leave me out of this. I can pretty much say no one that looks at my name and knew that "NEO NAZI" could be made of it untill a certain conflict of interest arose. Those that were around then know what I am talking about. You wouldn't even think about it either if you wasn't told. I have never made any racist slurs , comments or ever wore a swastika banner. So for you to bring me into this is bullshit plain and simple Concrete. The name isn't in horrible taste, It is only because of idiots like you that need to point out stupid shit. I would think "LIVE" is in bad taste because you can spell "EVIL" and we all know that offends the bible toting community we have here. So next time you wanna go on a witch hunt leave me out of it. As for NA$, your intentions may be admirable but your dealing with people that would rather flame you then talk about a situation. They could just ignore your topic but they would rather flame you. So in the long run, it's a waste of time trying to talk to 98% of the people on this forum about topics. Staff is just as bad, they ignore the topic, just like they do with all the sexual harassment thats being flung around with the increase of female players thats on the rise.

[Na$]

thats true oen..
but thats something I never understand in this game.. you post a complain about racism and people start to flame at you. And not only now, but also the first time I complained about it people start to flame. And that was even before I got myself a bad name. So I think there is seriously something wrong in this game.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Oen
Leave me out of this. I can pretty much say no one that looks at my name and knew that "NEO NAZI" could be made of it untill a certain conflict of interest arose.
You're right. "Oen Izan" is such a cryptography enigma that it took me months to crack the code. But I finally did it, by jiminy!

Originally posted by Oen
So for you to bring me into this is bullshit plain and simple Concrete.
Why is it bullshit? We're debating whether someone should be able to use a swastika banner in-game or not. What's the difference between having a swastika banner and a not-so-cleverly-disguised anti-semitic name?

Originally posted by Oen
It is only because of idiots like you that need to point out stupid shit. I would think "LIVE" is in bad taste because you can spell "EVIL" and we all know that offends the bible toting community we have here.
Hmmm, let me see. Well, "live" is an actual word. I can look at it and not try to look for any deeper meaning. Let me get out my dictionary here... hmmm... "Oen"... not finding anything for that. Oh well, let's try... hmmm... "Izan"... nope, nothing there either! Go figure! You're comparing apples to oranges, Oen.

The point is, you set yourself up for this conversation when you took the name "Oen Izan." Don't like being brought up in this light? Consider it your own fault.

Hey Peej! I'm going to send you a secret message, okay? No one will be able to figure it out except you and I! Ready? Get out your Captain Crunch Crunchberry-rific Decoder Ring!

Eibmozdoolb sewo em ytnewt skcub.

Check that shit out!

[Troll King]

Why are we choosing to ignore the presence of racism in Trench Wars? People are telling Na$ to shut up for causing trouble on these forums, but you have to realize something: he's pointing out a problem that actually exists. How is that considered to be "making trouble"?

There is one problem I find with Na4's statements and that is his presumption that anyone who isn't upset by racism is automatically "white". That itself is as predjudiced a statement as anything you're standing out against, and I demand that you apologize lest you undermine the crusade against racism.

[Na$]

I am happy that Troll King is thinking rational, in subspace that is rare at the moment.

I understand that when I am saying your white and stuff it sounds like racism or prejudicial comments or whatever, but I am just pointing out that: IF he was black, he WOULDNT argue with me. And that a lot of white people dont see the big deal out of
this discussion.

So I got no problems to make my excuses to white people who are offended by my way of talking, but Troll King, you have to remember that I am white myself too.

[Isreal]

doesn't look like something is going to be done about this issue, i myself chose to ignore them since i know they could never do anything more then words.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Troll King
Why are we choosing to ignore the presence of racism in Trench Wars? People are telling Na$ to shut up for causing trouble on these forums, but you have to realize something: he's pointing out a problem that actually exists. How is that considered to be "making trouble"?
You're misunderstanding the point. People are bitching because it's become a moot point here--he's started several threads on several UBBs that haven't gone anywhere. No one's raising their hand and screaming "NOT ME! I LOVE RACISM AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT!"

The big question with racism is where you draw the line. What some people consider offensive, others find no quarrel with. For instance, what if someone had the name Thomas Jefferson? He's seen by most Americans as a great patriot, but wait! He was a slave owner! That offends me! Ban his ass! The point is that this situation can get extremely ugly, very quickly.

It comes down to this: can you not just practice a bit of personal censorship? Do we always need a parental figure (mods) to clear up our own personal issues? Mythrandir, Latrine just called me a stupid-ass cracker, can you ban him for me? The truth is that a large number of player base for this game are between the ages of 12-18. Most adolescents (especially males) around this age thrive on pushing the envelope of general decency, and are going to do anything possible to annoy.

Again, no one here is advocating racism or ignoring it. I'm just making a point that just because Nas bought a Malcom X hat, doesn't mean he's Spike Lee.

[Annux]

People are telling Nas to shut up because he is trying to argue a complex, controverial issue with limited mental capacity.

1// This subject has been butchered, re-hashed, and re-done by him.

2// He does not bring out new points to support his argument. Racism is bad. We get it. Swastika offends you. I'm sorry. Staff should ban everyone who offends you. Terrific.

3// Look I understand he's not a native English speaker, but if he's honestly going to try and tackle such a difficult issue, he should at least put some work into making sure his message is readable


Na$, you are annoying. You aren't adding anything valuable to this debate and you are not bringing up any points of interest. We don't care anymore. For every 4 page post you make about DanyalDenyo and the swastika banner, anyone can make a 4 page post about personal rights and counter arguments to your definition of racism.




...And didn't you quit.

[Na$]

1) read my thread in Trench Wars forums

2) if my posts arent readable howcome you can reply to it and know exactly what is wrong ?

3) I did quit and still am. Howcome you are not dead yet.




To moderator: you can close this thread. Delete it. No one is
listening apparently. Well have fun in TW allowing racism!

[Louis XV]

Racism exists in real life for the same reasons that it does in the spaceship game: 1) people are ignorant twatnuggets, and 2) you can't change people.

As for what you said about admiring war being an immoral thing - there's a difference between admiring the slaughter of innocent people and admiring the human potential to mobilize an entire nation and get manufacturing going at a dizzying pace, all while applying interesting logistics/tactics abroad. wargames based on real war are not (traditionally) about the social or political facets of war, but rather the strategies and intellectual challenges of getting X done with a limited amount of Y. I agree with you that humanity would be better off applying its ingenuity to more peaceful purposes, but that really has nothing to do with what we're talking about here. The only person you cited as wearing a swastika banner is DanyalDenyo, and I'm telling you he's not a racist. he likes WW2 RTS games. these games sell fairly well in europe, yet people who play the "Germany" civilization aren't necessarily racists. need I say more?

Annux is correct: some people really need to just stay away from complex issues lest they get hurt trying to think about it.

[Annux]

Originally posted by Na$
1) read my thread in Trench Wars forums

2) if my posts arent readable howcome you can reply to it and know exactly what is wrong ?

3) I did quit and still am. Howcome you are not dead yet.




To moderator: you can close this thread. Delete it. No one is
listening apparently. Well have fun in TW allowing racism!


Dude you can't even match your numbers to reply to my points.
Please give up living.

[KayinNasaki]

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix. It was used to represent life, strenght and good luck.

The symbol is nearly 3000 years old and was used all over europe and even eventually spread to china before it was ruined by the Nazi's. (who used it in a way to represent there initial struggles). So I think its a matter of intent, more then raw meaning. Because I hate PC shit. :P

Also: Counter Clockwise is used now in cultures that still use it. The nazi symbol was clockwise. That might help some.


One time someone called me a ****** and I was like "only from the waist down" and he was like "STFUZZNUB"

[Oen]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Oen
Leave me out of this. I can pretty much say no one that looks at my name and knew that "NEO NAZI" could be made of it untill a certain conflict of interest arose.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You're right. "Oen Izan" is such a cryptography enigma that it took me months to crack the code. But I finally did it, by jiminy!

I have used the name for 2 years before people noticed that. Well your faster then most congrats.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Oen
So for you to bring me into this is bullshit plain and simple Concrete.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why is it bullshit? We're debating whether someone should be able to use a swastika banner in-game or not. What's the difference between having a swastika banner and a not-so-cleverly-disguised anti-semitic name?

It's bullshit because your talking about swastica's and not my name. The difference is it's a BLACK swastica on a WHITE circle inside a RED rectangle, you don't have to stare at and wonder why that guy has that particular symbol. If it's not set up like that then it has no relations to Adolf Hitler.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Oen
It is only because of idiots like you that need to point out stupid shit. I would think "LIVE" is in bad taste because you can spell "EVIL" and we all know that offends the bible toting community we have here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hmmm, let me see. Well, "live" is an actual word. I can look at it and not try to look for any deeper meaning. Let me get out my dictionary here... hmmm... "Oen"... not finding anything for that. Oh well, let's try... hmmm... "Izan"... nope, nothing there either! Go figure! You're comparing apples to oranges, Oen.

The point is, you set yourself up for this conversation when you took the name "Oen Izan." Don't like being brought up in this light? Consider it your own fault.

To be honest I could care less. Though your here just like most of the others, to drag this into the dirt so it will not be talked about. That is why I think that NA$ has decided to rehash this topic. Obviously nothing has been done to change peoples views with the umpteen other times this topic came up. So with the influx of new people maybe the topic would spawn some STAFF concern. But once again you and countless others are trying to sweep it back under the carpet. I can see you just a band wagoneer. You go with the flow weither right or wrong, just because the majority says that how it's supposed to be. You and many others view seems to be that nother will be done so why fight it.. I am glad that this world doesn't have that belief. Alot of thangs would be different don't you think?

Hey Peej! I'm going to send you a secret message, okay? No one will be able to figure it out except you and I! Ready? Get out your Captain Crunch Crunchberry-rific Decoder Ring!

Eibmozdoolb sewo em ytnewt skcub.

Check that shit out

Wow, you should contact Comedy Central, you have real talent there.

[Troll King]

So we're dismissing anti-racist arguments because they've been said and done before with no effect? Complacency is part of the problem.

The argument of where to draw the line is a faulty one. When addressing racism in Trench Wars, we should be dealing with situations where people are going out of their way to be racist and to offend. Wearing the swastica banner is one thing, but doing it while spewing racist slurs is another. As it is, spec-hunting is considered to be harassment in this zone and is treated with a heavier hand than someone throwing racial slurs left and right.

I do find fault when one of the people telling Na$ to stop this crusade is someone who has been known to be racist on many occassions. That individual has no moral right to tell Na$ to stop because the "subject has been butchered, re-hashed, and re-done".

[Louis XV]

Originally posted by Troll King
So we're dismissing anti-racist arguments because they've been said and done before with no effect? Complacency is part of the problem.

The argument of where to draw the line is a faulty one. When addressing racism in Trench Wars, we should be dealing with situations where people are going out of their way to be racist and to offend. Wearing the swastica banner is one thing, but doing it while spewing racist slurs is another. As it is, spec-hunting is considered to be harassment in this zone and is treated with a heavier hand than someone throwing racial slurs left and right.

I do find fault when one of the people telling Na$ to stop this crusade is someone who has been known to be racist on many occassions. That individual has no moral right to tell Na$ to stop because the "subject has been butchered, re-hashed, and re-done".

What proof do any of you (Na$ or TK) have that shows that staff is *not* punishing those who use racial slurs in public chats?

TK, in your 2nd paragraph you aptly explained staff's policy on racism - wearing an "offensive" banner doesn't merit punishment (it would be impossible to enforce, trust me), yet the use of racial slurs constitutes a punishable violation. Your statement that "spec-hunting is treated with a heavier hand than someone throwing racial slurs left and right" is baseless. Back it up, please. Just because you see a few people doing it and not getting caught does not mean that staffers are just letting it slide. Anyone with half a brain will shut up when a staffer enters the arena. The staffer has to SEE the "racial slurring" in order to punish it - otherwise I could just "?cheater wtf Na$ called me a @#)%(@%)(@$%)(, ban him gogog"

[Bigwig]

Originally posted by Louis XV


As for what you said about admiring war being an immoral thing - there's a difference between admiring the slaughter of innocent people and admiring the human potential to mobilize an entire nation and get manufacturing going at a dizzying pace, all while applying interesting logistics/tactics abroad. wargames based on real war are not (traditionally) about the social or political facets of war, but rather the strategies and intellectual challenges of getting X done with a limited amount of Y. I


Its so awesome! i'm gonna go get my socio-economic action figure tomorrow, with its deployable bank loans and shrinking recession rates!!! w00t! yeah it has nothing to do with the violence. he enjoy tanks for the economic workhorse behind the manufacturing, not the fact that it can run over stuff and go boom!

oen, your nick is easy to comprehend. i think most people think you're a dumbass because you refuse to believe most people might get the idea that you are a neo nazi.

i don't know anything about the history of the swastica and really i don't care. i've said before that i think the nazi's ruined it for everybody. and all that shit, without further research, just sounds like neo nazi propaghanda to me. a justification for having the god damn thing around.

and finally, if the topic is so rehashed, redone, and not worth talking about, don't post here, skip the thread genius'.

[Na$]

Its a good thing some of you actually try to discuss this matter,
like Concrete, Louis, Troll, Bigwig and that guy who posted some info on the history of swastika.

I dont mind pulling my neck out for this. People think I am an asshole etc because I make trouble at forums, but I dont think thats really important, at least I have my principles.


But going to what Louis asked to TK about staff not dealing with racism. Well I ahve been on staff and got removed for banning that racist dude. For me that is one arguement. A guy named A hitler Jr. was able to fly through TW while not being raped by staff, quite weird since you cant login to SS/TW with the name
Adolf Hitler. Its forbidden u see.

[Na$]

Its a good thing some of you actually try to discuss this matter,
like Concrete, Louis, Troll, Bigwig and that guy who posted some info on the history of swastika.

I dont mind pulling my neck out for this. People think I am an asshole etc because I make trouble at forums, but I dont think thats really important, at least I have my principles.


But going to what Louis asked to TK about staff not dealing with racism. Well I ahve been on staff and got removed for banning that racist dude. For me that is one arguement. A guy named A hitler Jr. was able to fly through TW while not being raped by staff, quite weird since you cant login to SS/TW with the name
Adolf Hitler. Its forbidden u see. He wasnt saying anything racial though, but he ignored my question asking if u could hop in with another name.

Bah I accidednty posted the thing... shit...

Ok.. another arguement is that I once gave a log or posted a log about people who were racist to me. (nazi stuff, white power stuff, that I needed to be dead) but because that guy was in Light a lot of people were flaming me on forum, esspecially Ruby, also a member of light. And again, the only thing that had been done 'by staff' is moving the topic to trashtalk.

And see now again: absolutely NO ONE from staff has replied to this topic saying what their policty is, or what they do to prevent racism. I mean they let me wear Black Power as well as a squadname. How stupid is that ?

[KayinNasaki]

;_; I have a name you know... *sniff*sniff*

[Na$]

sorry dude ;)

[Annux]

Originally posted by Na$
I mean they let me wear Black Power as well as a squadname. How stupid is that ?


I think it's time for a revolution.

[Dillusion]

i am racist usually because what the black people do to white kids in real life, they bring it upon themselves, they think they are the greatest thing, when infact they smell and they are the farthest from great, white people get mad because of how they act towards us, dont try to justify what i say, because it's only true, the squad black power would offend me, and the squad white power would make me happy, deal with it, crybaby bitches, especially you na$ir, who keeps bringing this bullshit topic up on every forum you stumble upon, jerkweed

[Dabram]

I just think that racists or people who think its "cool" to have a racist banner (Danyal) or a racist name (Neo Nazi) should be banned or warned to change name/banner by the staff whenever they see someone using it. I'm not saying that they should track down everyone who is using it, but when someone is clearly using a racist banner/name and a staffer notices or gets a ?cheater-message about it, he should be banned/warned. IRL racism isn't allowed either so in this game it shouldn't be any different. For staff it isn't hard to do and it would be a relief for ppl in this game to see that other players can't just go around using racist banners/names.

and to dillusion try to not generalize it will make you look a little less stupid..

and oen izan i still don't get why you use that name, is it to get some sort of (negative) attention or are you actually a neo nazi?


-bram

[Na$]

I agree with Dabster ofcourse.
Some things that notice me:

1) Oen Izan ... I cant get the link between his name and what he is saying on forum. I never had any complaints about Oen Izan and the funny thing also is that I never saw that he was wearing the name Neo Nazi... lol... but still what he is saying on this forum is kinda rational, so I leave the subject Oen Izan there.

2) It seems that lower Staff has been forbidden by upper staff to post on this thread.. "post here and be axed" lol I dont know if thats true tho, just making some jokes, but It looks kinda....
strange....

3) Dillussion when I look at ur pictures of TW Gallery I just cant blame you for how you are talking and how you are thinking. I think you would be the one as in American History X who would get killed for being tough. But we all know that in real life you are a little kiddy who has to do everything his parents says. Thats why you are acting cool here. But its okay, you are allowed to.

[Annux]

Originally posted by Dabram
IRL racism isn't allowed either so in this game it shouldn't be any different.


Do you live in Germany, and is it 1939?

What you consider racism, I consider a civil liberty. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean I have to stop expressing myself to appease you.

[THE PUSHER]

Well then allow me to be the first Staff member to state my opinion.

First off, I would like to address the issue of the name A Hitler Jr, which is so far from being an offensive name it's not even funny. You may want to realize that there are still people in this world who have that last name, does this make them heinous, untrustworthy, and evil? No. If you were removed from staff for banning an individual because of your own personal vendetta, then your removal was justified due to your inability to remain objective and fair as a staff member.

As a human being, I am fundamentally opposed to racism on a personal level. I don't like to see it, I don't like to experience it (for the curious I am caucasian, and have experienced racism first hand as the victim, not the assailant), and I see no place for it in my ideal world. But let's get one thing straight, this is the real world. Idealism often times is the wool we pull over our own eyes, to make swallowing the bitter pill of reality a lot easier. The reality is, racism exists on a personal level and on an institutional level.

Now to the meat of the topic, racism in Trench Wars. First you need to step outside of the box, use objective thinking to determine what should or should not be allowed in this game. How is racism defined in Trench Wars? It is defined as an individual or group of individuals using race or skin color, as a means to belittle or harm another player of this game. This would include use of racial slurs over publically accessible chat channels. This is where we as staff members are able to enforce the ruling that use of racial slurs/profanity as being illegal and not tolerated in this zone.

How about the symbolism of racism? First let's define symbolism: symbolism-the practice of representing things by means of symbols or of attributing symbolic meanings or significance to objects, events, or relationships. There are many symbols out there that represent movements that press for racial inequality and ethnic cleansing. Symbols used by the Ku Klux Klan, WWII Nazi Germany and current Neo-Nazi movements, the Black Panthers, even the Rainbow PUSH Coalition. These groups all have ideals that call for the furthering of their race at the cost of another.

But here is where we get into a very sticky grey area. Do we as staff members make it policy to ban individuals based on a symbol they use for their banner? Quite simply we can't. You call for the removal of a specific banner that formerly was the flag by which Nazi Germany proclaimed itself. By doing this, it would set an unprecedented standard, in which any banner that remotely symbolizes any action or group that does not fit the ideal of Utopian equality, be immediately removed and subject to harsh criticism and punishment. Staff may not agree with the use of such banners, but if we begin censoring a right to expression based on personal taste issues and vendettas, then we have become no better than any of the individuals or groups you want to stop from being racist or exculsionary.

This whole issue is a catch-22, and obviously a hot button topic. As I stated above, I have no liking for any racist group or individual, and I am sure a great portion of our staff feel the same way on a personal level. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, and it was wisely chosen to censor racial speak inside of the game, and apply just punishments to it's use. If we continue down the road of excluding each and every tiny symbol that may have an underlying meaning of hatred, then we may as well just pack up and close shop. Use a little tolerance, understand that people have opinions and people have beliefs, and have every right to express them. Also understand that we as staff do what we can, and are not willing to overstep our bounds for any personal reason. We act in the best interest of the entire zone (note: If you feel it necessary to attack the 'best interest of the zone' statement, reread this post 5 or 6 times before you make a baseless argument on whats best and whats not), we do not act on individual opinion or individually motivated campaigns.

In closing, I would just like to ask that if you see instances of racism in the game over public chat channels, please report it. This is how we can curtail the gratuitous use of racial slurs that have become so prevelant in other zones. If you have a personal issue with the symbolism, take it up with the person you feel is being offensive by using that symbol. Do not force us as staff into an unfair position of being a domineering dictatorship that removes individual rights of expression.

[Na$]

good post pusher.


but still I have my thoughts on the racism thing. About the hitler jr. guy... well he was also wearing a WWII related squadname so it wasnt just the case for the player name.

Myself I have been thinking too about what the effects could be when you forbid a type of banner: what about all the other offending banners? And I realize that will cause problems, cause there might be banners offensive we dont know about, or maybe everyone has a different kind of way to feel "hurt" by a banner or squadname. And ofcourse, we cant listen to all.

But when we are talking about Klu Klux Klan, Black Panthers, Osama Bin Laden, Adolf Hitler, Nazis etc everyone knows what we are talking about, so if you would put it in percents of racism:
these categories are 100% offensive: everyone knows about it, and this means the impact is bigger. And for the groups which are not as known as the first category, they will have less impact cause people dont know them. In other words: if we would have a small organisation, a racist one, in the city I am living and we would have a symbol and I would be wearing that symbol in subspace, nobody would know that it was a racist symbol so that means I wouldnt get banned for it, for the simple reason no one knows what it means. But do you think if I want to spread the word that I am a racist or want to "hurt" a lot of people or just want to be offensive as hell I would be wearing that symbol ?
Hell no, if people dont know about the symbol how can I hurt them then ? I would use a generally known symbol as the swastika: everyone knows what it stands for... so I would have a bigger audience to tease.

You can just ignore what I have written above if you dont find that interesting, but then I got a very nice question:

" Why o why would it be UNFAIR to ban racist-related things, just because there might be other things out there which could be racist or provokive too ? "

Isnt that looking at the wrong side of the picture ? Like we should care if the racist guys are upset cause they get banned fo rit and other people get away with it ? I think banning should be standard and everyone who gets away with it is lucky. You dont get all cheaters and abusers also, so that should be the same with racists. Ban them when you can, if you dont see all, too bad, but dont say you wont punish them because there might be things we dont know or we dont see. If you write in TW rules: no racist banners and squadnames or familiar ones....

But ok, if not I guess it will be like this:
We wont ban for racial symbols and / or squadnames cause we are affraid that we might not oversee the situation.

Brrrr... maybe u guys are just too affraid to deal with the situation. Sorry to say and I dont want to be an ass (I guess i am)
but I am fearing that you guys are affraid to put your neck out.

[Na$]

sigh I mean pull your neck out, not put your neck out.

[The Crimson King]

Call yourself whatever you want, fly whatever banner you want. But don't cry when people give you shit about it. Freedom of expression cuts both ways.

This is an interesting issue, since (1) you can (apparently) express yourself in a racially insensitive manner; (2) you can (apparently, again) readily and abundantly verbally abuse your fellow trenchers; but (3) you cannot express yourself in a racially insensitive manner that verbally abuses your fellow trencher(s).

Perhaps this is because most people aren't enough of a jackass to spout racial epithets at other people, thus the burden of policing racial slurs is within the capacity of Staff's limited staff. Or maybe it's because telling someone to go stick their stinking pole in their father's ass and then shove it into their mother's gaping maw of a toothless mouth is less offensive than calling someone a spic, a ******, a kike, a honkey, a mick, a slope, a kraut, a wop, a canadian (whoops that's not a racial slur, is it?), etc. Or maybe calling someone a fuckwad is politically correct (though still obnoxious) while use of racial slurs is not, and our beloved staffers are hugely into promoting P.C. values.

Now that you've wasted two minutes reading this post, I conclude that this is (yes, annux, I agree) an issue that's been rehashed over and over on these boards mercilessly, and unless somebody else now wants to blather on and on about relatively nothing just because they like to hear the keys on the keyboard go "click clack click clack clickclack clackity-click clack clack click clack CLACK CLACK CLACK" like I do, it's time to close the shutters, turn off the lights, lock the doors, and close this suckerbait of a thread down.

Useless blathering, anyone?

tCK

PS As another useless observation, upon previewing this message I note that only one of the long list of offensive racial slurs I posted in this message is censored out automatically by the forums. This would tend to indicate that some racial slurs are worse than others, which might support the above stated hypothesis that staff promotes politically correct speech, although that's by no means a well-thought or particularly insightful conclusion (nor is it even entirely reasonable). AH HAHAH YOU WASTED ANOTHER MINUTE! GOTCHA!

[Louis XV]

Originally posted by The Crimson King
This is an interesting issue, since (1) you can (apparently) express yourself in a racially insensitive manner; (2) you can (apparently, again) readily and abundantly verbally abuse your fellow trenchers; but (3) you cannot express yourself in a racially insensitive manner that verbally abuses your fellow trencher(s).

(4) you can, however, verbally abuse your fellow trenchers who express themselves in a racially insensitive manner

discuss amongst yourselves

-nt- case closed

[Puppet Master]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/oct-02-fan.jpg

[Dillusion]

Originally posted by Na$
good post pusher.

blah blah blah i type too much yeah



ok, so i'll explain? do you know why they bring it upon themselves? its because of what they do, and how they act. the black girls in school think they are the greatest thing, they think they have the right of way, they just plow through the halls like fat fucks thinking they can do whatever they want because no matter where they go, there is a 'brotha' or a 'homie' lying around somewhere. its because black people lye on the doors at school, blocking them and using them as a backrest instead of something to walk through. they talk loudly and piss and moan all day about why there are no black people on the school calendar, and why the white kids are always doing better than them. they expect everything to be handed to them on a gold plated fucking dish. they fail their classes and all they do is make the principal hire another security guard every school year.

they hang out after school and say faggot things like 'whut son' and 'haha kid' while people walk by. i guess it makes them feel better because they know they are fucking useless wastes of space. when walking through the hallways all you hear is some screechy black girls voice go YO DAWG AHAHA NIGGA SHEET. they dont even belong in this school. for some background information, the school is on the border of coral springs (the white kid town where all te houses are 200k and up) and tamarac (the older city with fuckshit property sale and black people). if the school cut off and actually checked where kids came from, 90% of the school would be white, and be full of passing students. instead, they are forced to take in these black people and the school is how it is right now.

black people sit at home, draining tax money with wellfare, and food stamps, with tax money from people who actually worked for it, and what do they do? they get themselves a gun and land on the front of the newspaper and on the first story in the news. in south florida, its a regular thing to see a black man in his 15-50's on the news saying 'killed or shot someone' somehow with something.

last week, 5 million some odd dollars was given to miami ghetto fuck black school to make them 'succeed'. well hey , microsoft pitched in and gave every classroom a class set of labtops with wireless internet, and HEY GUESS WHAT! THEY WERE ALL FUCKING STOLEN AND USED TO LOOK AT PUFFDADDY.COM, this will teach jeb bush a lesson next time a under achieving school thats 99 percent black people asks for money and supplies.

that is why white people are annoyed and dont like black people, dont get me wrong, i do have some black friends, some are cool and dont say 'damn white kids' and go 'whut whut g-nigga whut'. k, na$ir?

[Troll King]

That is truly the most ignorant and prejudiced post ever written on these forums.

[The Crimson King]

Dillusion:

So your point is what?

I would assume that you have had bad experiences with black people. I've had some bad experiences with black people too (I attended a high school that was 70% black students), but I have managed to keep a realistic viewpoint. I suggest that you do too, but it seems you're a little far gone at this point.

To associate bad behavior of a group that is prominently of a certain immutable characteristic to all members of the class that is of that immutable characteristic (now go look up immutable, because I am goddamn sure that you've never seen that word in print before) isn't reasonable (e.g., many Mexicans in Nogales smuggle marijuana, thus all Mexicans smuggle marijuana).

Please, for the love of God (and I'm holding back my intellectual outrage at your small-minded expression at damn near the cost of my sanity), learn these things: (1) the language; (2) how that language relates to basic reasoning; (3) basic reasoning; (4) realization that your views are not valid simply because they're yours.

(As a general note, (4) applies to oh-so-many of our fine trenching babbling peers.)

If you didn't understand it (and I don't expect half the people who read this post to understand it because I'm realistic and pessimistic, PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG), go read it again.

I'm sure you'll post some more jackassed, poorly conceived idiocy soon, Dill. When you do, PLEASE ALLOW ME TO RETORT.

tCK

[Epinephrine]

I find it funny that in a thread about racism, the person who started the thread had to resort to racism himself. Quite sad.

I find racism completely deplorable, and I wish that people would not judge entire groups from small samples. Living in perhaps the most multicultural city in the world, I have realized that all people have something to offer and that racism is just plain stupid.

In Canada we have laws against discrimination of any kind. It is in fact enshrined in a major section of our constitution, in a section called the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (think the US Bill of Rights, but written in with late-20th century values).

The fact is many people do resort to racism, and many people are just jerks. Is Danyal a jerk or is he racist? Maybe he's both, who's to say (and for the record, the symbol of the german military is the Black cross, with a grey border set on a black background.. yes they still used that in WW2). Does the Nazi Swaztica uniquely represent something? Yes it does. The Buddist version of the swaztica isn't on a 45 degree angle (it's square, not diamond) and it isn't black/red/white.

Should we deal with these people who are blantently racist, and who may actually offend some people playing the game? If you type racist remarks, you will be warned, and if you persist you will be BANNED in Trench Wars. That's policy. If you use the remarks that's an ACTIVE usage of racism for intent of harm. Why is racism held to a different degree than saying "you're a dicksucker loser ass" or something like that? Because of the simple fact that the racist marks have real connetations. If you have never been attacked with racist remarks you would not understand. Why aren't words such as "fag" banned then? Well in the perfect world they would be, but I guess in TW races have more rights than sexual preference.

But why don't we ban for passive racism then? In fact sometimes we do. Squadnames that are overtly racist ARE banned. Some names are banned too if overly racist (yes I've seen it happen). That's where it gets a bit sticky. If all of that is done, why isn't the Nazi banner banned? I have no idea. The easiest explaination is that no matter what you say, the 13x8 banner sized picture is small and hard to interpret. If we started to ban for banners, it would get really hard to define and arbitrary really fast. But then again I have no idea why the line is drawn at banners other than the fact that it's Priitk's decision that it be so.

Should the staff be censoring the zone? Personally I would not agree with that. As much as I disagree with racism, I don't think that people should be censored. I don't think that the obsenity filter was a good idea in the first place. We live in a world where the freedom to exchange ideas is important to us. We are on all on the Internet where the ability to exchange ANY idea is important.

Sure the staff should stop blantent harassment and the likes, but I think censoring words goes too far. We see these words on TV, in Movies, in books and everywhere else on the Internet. What is proved by censoring it here? What is proved by having an obscenity filter that blocks out swear words? That somehow TW is such a special community that it is free from the outside world? That is purely naive.

I do not support racism, I do not support harassment. But I do support free speech and a free exchange of ideas. A free exchange is not allowed in SS in almost every zone, and I guess that's life. But I think that the nature of the problem is that words only have meaning if put in a context. Black people call eachother the N word all the time. Gay people call eachother Queer. After a while a word is just that... a word. Racism cannot be stopped by stopping words (this isn't 1984). So why stop a freedom of expression?

But TW is a place where things ARE censored for various reasons (people don't like seeing it, kids play this game, etc.). So since they are, why isn't there a standard policy. Why are names/squads/pub chat censored, but not banners? Maybe one day this will be rectified.

-Epi

[nonstopstarter99]

sorry

[Adman]

I'm gonna ************************************************** ********************************************** to your mommy.

[nonstopstarter99]

sorry

[Na$]

ok you can delete this thread.


To Epi:

1) How did i be racist ? I am white so i cannot have been racists
to white, that wouldnt be logical

And how did I be racist to black people ? By quoting a sentence
from Pulp Fiction ? About the dead... storage... if that is racism
that would be quite funny. BEcause in your post you later on
talk about that the word .... is used by many blacks to eachother
so I think its quite strange to eat of both sides.

2) What blacks and gays name eachother is one thing, but what
non-blacks and non-gays say to blacks and gays is completely something else. Try to call a black man a stupid **** or just ******., he would hurt you, guaranteed. Maybe not when he is
your friend, but as most people are in ss, they are not friends, so they have no right to call eachother bad words.

Well I had enough of this topic, heard enough, seen enough
and I can draw my conclusions now.

I just hope that being racist is not seen as a freedom of speech,
cause its a propaganda which cannot be tolerated. If too much people would be racist, it would undermine the rights of foreign
groups, the blacks for instant. Racism would get through in getting jobs, education. Am I going to far ? Racism is racism, regardless in which form. It will end up like this if too much people
get racist.

Ok guys have fun in SS. Oh no, let me rephrase myself:
Be cool and then you will have fun. Cause being cool and acting
stupid is the only thing you guys come for. (the "racism" guys)
Just ruining the game for others.... Playing against my friends or my computer is just so much better, I dont get called a fag, a ****** or hear white power slurs, see swastika banners in games where they shouldnt be etc etc... is thats the game you guys want: well have fun, but not for me, not in this lifetime.

[Farce]

omg can you not see black is not good IF i where hitler i wouldnt of killed the jews i woulda killed all the blacks oh well i can only dream

[Na$]

LOL nice post. Half my family is black...

You gotta look at your age and at the age of all the others
in your school.... they all think its cool to be cool and bla bla
so that has nothing to do with all blacks. Like there are not white
people who think they are da bomb. lol...

I am in university now in Amsterdam, and in my school all people
are nice. Well some of them are quite irritating, but here all
black girls dont have attitudes, but come to learn.

Well I dont need to explain this, its all bullshit dillussion and you
know it.

Bah...

nazi guy

[Farce]

"Give me the strength to be who I was and forgive me for what I am." no you will never be forgiven common look at you

[Na$]

Well Epi you like racism ? here you have it huh


I think its F***** bullshit that you label me quite sad for
having quoted the sentence from pulp fiction and than labelling
me a racist... calling me quite sad...

wtF

if I am quite sad... than what are Destroy, Coyote, Annux, Dillussion, Farce ?? and many more !!!
Your just standing on the wrong side dude, but oh well,
your elite and too affraid to have people hate you...

I DONT CARE

Stupid racism toleration in ss... GTFO

[Farce]

your black why would we listen huh any ways go play on motor ways 100 points for each black down

[Bigwig]

you're the coolest rebel ever.

[Na$]

Sigh u stupid Farce I AM WHITE... that spells WHITE
not BLACK but WHITE

and I can tell you that a lot of people are smarter than you,
including blacks...

[Zeb Sent]

I would like to support Na$ on this issue.

Several times during the time I've played Subspace I've turned to the mods regarding to players with Swastika banners who refused to take them off even after I talked to them and made them understand they personally offend me. I have to state that the mods were always supportive and did everything they could to convince those specific players to take the banners off, for which I'm thankful.
I've read all this thread and I have to state that in spite of the original meaning of Swastika I am sure that we all understand that when someone uses it as his banner he isn't intending to represent life, he intends to represent racism.

I don't think that Nazi remarks should take place in Subspace, obviously I don't think they should take place at all but in Subspace specifically they can be controlled.
I cannot speak for anyone else other than me but I know that I feel uncomfortable when I'm flying my space ship in an innocent game and suddenly see some person, probably a teenager, hiding under a rasist nick and banner who is obviously trying to offend all those who are related to the issue.

I do understand it is a person's right to state everything he wishes but in my mind having a Swastika banner is similar to having a banner which says in small print something like "I hate all f.... n... and j....", I am sure that a banner like that wouldn't have been tolerated, then why should a banner which holds the same thought should?

I was really amazed to see the ignorance about the issue in this thread, I expected people to show more understandment and courtesy, even if they aren't Black skinned, Jews or anything else.

So to summarize my point of view, I am against racism, and although it cannot be controlled in real life it can be controlled in Subspace, can and should be controlled, because controlling it wouldn't harm anyone, neglecting the issue will and does.

Thanks for reading this,
Have a nice day.

[Annux]

Originally posted by Na$
Be cool and then you will have fun.


Are you Barney?


You seem to get offended alot for a white guy. I'm willing to bet you're one of those little, bitter wiggers with Rough Riders tattoos. Eminem isn't good, na$, let it go.

[Annux]

Hey muzzie, here's a site you might like: http://rsdb.fuck.org/?2

[Puppet Master]

Originally posted by Na$
I AM WHITE
didnt you say half your family is black? that would make you a zebra

[Epinephrine]

Na$, I am against racism, but I am not against freedom of expression. Even in Germany where the issue of Nazism is very poignant demonstrations by NeoNazis are still held and are democratically protected.

Still the people who run Subspace choose to outright go against racism. Fine, that's their prerogative. They don't want to see racial slurs used everywhere and they've stopped it, and I guess that's admirable to protect those who are really offended by words on the internet (but aren't offended magically when someone calls them a cocksucking mama's boy or something).

What I don't like is that common swear words are also blocked out, when you can say so many other things. This makes those who legitimately use swear words to have their messages not appear. What I also don't agree with (and I agreed with you dumbass) is that the penalities for racism are inconsistant. Again I will say that TW bans for racist squads, names and messages. But it DOES NOT ban for banners. Why is this so? Because Priitk said so.

How were you racist? When I think racist, I think of someone who is ignorant. Someone who perpetuates racial stereotypes. I don't necessarily think people who are blatently racist. Remember there are many ways to say the same time, and still come across as ignorant and discriminatory.

What did you say?
=================
"And when I am wearing the squadname Black Power and say something about the white nazis, people say to me: STFU you are wearing black power. Lol, but you didnt hear them when I was complaining about white power stuff. "

"You should read some history son, maybe only then you can understand why there are mostly black people living in ghetto's and mostly black people rejected for jobs etc. in Western Countries."

"You think it's over ? Black = white ; everyone got the same oppurtunities ? Lol. That is because you are white!"

"Your white and you dont care. Dont read this then."
===================

It's interesting that you automatically equate white people with people who are racist (maybe because you are so yourself?). It's interesting how you automatically equate black people as the only people who live in ghettos. It's interesting that you wear a squadname "black power".

How about all the other ethnic groups in the world that are discriminated against? How about certain blacks who discriminate against white people? By stereotyping an issue as you have, you have completely missed what racism is about and what racism is. I suggest that you treat people with some respect at least, and perhaps they will treat you back if they are rational human beings.

-Epi
P.S. Half of your post makes absolutely no sense. I don't think it has to do with you living in a non-english speaking country because your examples for instance make no sense either. Maybe you should think before you talk Na$.

[aphix]

Originally posted by Farce
your black why would we listen huh any ways go play on motor ways 100 points for each black down

bang out of order man, i cant think of a single place in the world, where racism is tollerated... and subspace is no exception :mad:

-aphix

[Annux]

We are all in agreement that Na$ is a complete dickwad.

[aphix]

is a dickwad similar to a tampon?

[Annux]

http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/080402/your-pulse.gif

[aphix]

haha

-aphix

[Lord HADES]

I agree with u Na$. I am shocked by the amount of racist signs and names on subspace. Not only Nazi-ist, but there’s also a lot of sexual discrimination. I think staff should take complaints about these signs more seriously. Direct banning or warning may be too strict, so I suggest the person is spoken to, and asked for his motivations etc. Explain to him WHY a racist symbol isn’t tolerated. If that doesn’t work, ban him.

Of course this is NOT an objective discussion. No form of racism can be objectively differing from "the right of freedom of opinion". I place my trust in the judgment of the staff to determine whether something is racist/discriminative. The only thing is that they should respond. Even more actively and quickly.

PUSHER;
Isn't it hypocritical to allow racism in a banner while forbidding it in the chat? Language is symbolism too, and subject to interpretation. A banner isn’t just a tiny symbol, its a great factor in the game with which people can show their identity, maybe equally important as someone’s name.
An argument to ban people using a racist banner, and not banning people using racist language is that players are able to ignore certain annoying people (?ignore). However, you cant ignore certain offensive names or banners.
And about freedom of opinion: that’s only very idealistic. That freedom is limited is in the real world, and that is in subspace. Limiting freedom of expression isn’t forbidding freedom of expression. Team killing is a form of expression (of anger, rage or stupidity) that is limited.
You are exaggerating the situation, and making loads of fallacies to make the feeling of being discriminated less important than a limitation of expression.
TrenchWars has a RULE that states racism is forbidden. Be consistent, and act on ALL forms of racism.
Racism is never an individual harassment. Its always institutional. Its enclosed in its definition. Individual is e.g.: “NOOB” “EZ LAMER” constitutional (discrimination) is: “***** ******” “STUPID SLUT” (sexual discrimination of females).

The biggest issue isn't, what the main discussion of this thread has been describing, the form or display of racism but the motives. Discrimination is not a sign, or a word or a thousand sentences. Discrimination/racism is an ACT of someone. Motives of people are much more difficult to determine than than a depiction of racism. This is in fact the main problem: when is someone using racial symbols to discriminate, or to harass and provoke people.
Staff should concentrate on dealing with the people who deliberately create/display racist symbols as a form of racism.

This should all be consideren if you want to live up to the rules of trenchwars.

Personally i believe that no one can be a racist in trenchwars, unless they have a form of power over someone. So only <er>'s and mods can be racist. Or in the very extreme case: people are being HUNTED in the game because of racist motives (highly unlikely). All the rest is no racism (IMHO). I am however, strongly against expression of ANY racist believes a player may hold.

IMHO sinners dont have to be banned immediately. A conversation is a good way to reach mutual understanding. If racist players avoid a conversation, his motives are clearly evil (to piss ppl off) and banning should follow

And folks, don’t be ashamed of writing or reading a lot of text ;) I can tell u, thinking about these issues is 100 times more useful than playing Subspace. ;) Ignore ‘funny’ annux.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Lord HADES
IMHO sinners dont have to be banned immediately.
That's not what Jesus teaches us. :)

[GuruMeditation]

Applaud the British fans for retaliating the the racist treatment of their black players instead of condemning them for the violence.

[Na$]

Okz

Well Epi I got some simple non agressive answer for that

1) When I am saying " bla blab abla abl.... .cause your white"
I want to state that a black person would never attack someone in a thread as this, attacking me, cause I know that a black person can only applaud the fact that I am trying to get racism in
SS. I am not saying that I think that white people who disagree
with me are racist, I dont believe that, I am just saying that black people would never attack me for trying to get rid of racism. Ofcourse, I know that there are allways exceptions, but thats the
same for white people, you have Annux and you have urself.
I think it is just so sad that people call me names for trying to get
rid of racism. Ofcourse I bring it in a non-friendly way sometimes,
but hey this is not the first time I am posting something about this
issue.

2) With wearing my black power squadname I wanted to point out
that Subspace/Trench Wars has a wrong policy. Nobody warned
me for it, while they should be. I use it only to be provokive to staff.

3) I dont really understand why you are critizising me for some things, isnt it more important what the message is I am trying
to spread ?

4) I am glad you agree with me on one point. I want to add something interesting to this story: I have recently visited some
sort of soccer game at http://www.hattrick.org en there it is
not tolerated to have racial squadnames and managernames.
They wont let you play with it. So I think it is Priitk or Staffs'fault
that this is not happening here too...

[Annux]

Me and Epi are both unfortunate members of Da Whiteboyee Club

[Yoshiba]

fortunately, im a member of the chef boyardee club

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by Annux
Me and Epi are both unfortunate members of Da Whiteboyee Club

Sorry to burst your bubble but i'm asian.

-Epi

[Annux]

no shit?

[Wreckless MiG]

http://elftor.zerolives.org/elftor.php?number=79

[Dillusion]

im back from universal, time for me to retort....


imnot racist, to get that straight, when im mad in elim maybe the worst insult i can come up with sometime is 'you ******', but i dont say it in real life....

and for you nas, and the crimson king, in my school, thats how it is, 98% of the black people are how i explained it, yes there is a percent that arent

[Troll King]

How can you possibly claim that you are not racist after saying what you said?


It's a cliche now. "I'm not a racist but..." "I'm not a sexist, but..." "some of my best friends are black, but..."

Those statements only say that you don't consider yourself a racist. Of course, that's an easy statement to make when it's somebody else that feels insulted by what you say.

[Blast]

How many people can come up with good reasons for allowing things like swastika banners and names such as Oen Izan? For the most part, the people who are racist in this game are either A) racist fucks, or B) are doing it to fuck with people, because they like making everyone angry. I don't think that the people that are racist fucks should be able to get their point across via Subspace, and I definitely don't think it's worth me having to hear people spew racist bullshit just so we can preserve somebody's right to fuck with people.

In real life, it's hard to be vocally racist. At my school, if anyone came even remotely close to saying all that shit that Dillusion said in his post a page or so back, he would be either dead or beaten to a bloody pulp in seconds. He'd be scared shitless to say any of those things, and therefore, he wouldn't say it. And that's a good thing. Ideas like "(black people) are useless wastes of space" do not need to be expressed, and they do not need to be heard.

However, on Subspace, you can say whatever the fuck you want, with no fear of ending up dead. I don't think that should be the case. Well, you shouldn't fear ending up dead, but you shouldn't be able to say anything that you want, either. I don't want to hear it. Is there anyone that does? If enjoy seeing swastikas, or you enjoy hearing Dillusion say "this will teach Jeb Bush a lesson when a school of 99% black people asks for more money", please post here and enlighten me as to what value you see in those things.

Now, TK, you seem to be getting upset that people are against Na$ posting the exact same thread for the 5th straight time. Honestly, I agree that it sucks that nobody will listen to him, but I really wish he weren't our anti-racism poster boy. He's pretty incoherent most of the time, and he doesn't even really seem to have a grasp about what racism is. He also never really has concrete points that he's arguing for. He says "racism is bad. Boo, racism." And everyone's like, "well, yeah." And then he just reposts what he's already posted. It really doesn't do anyone any good. Life would be much easier if people could come out and say, "DanyalDenyo has a swastika banner. I don't think that should be allowed." Or "Kid Kaos is an ignorant fuck, and he just said 'blah blah', and it bothers me that there's no way he can get banned for that" or something along those lines. "I just saw a movie, and it reminded me that racism is bad" is hardly a call for any sort of action. So, I think that that's what Annux is pointing out, not that rallying against racism is a bad thing.

I don't think that any banner that offends the portion of people as much as DD's does should be allowed. Period. Granted, it makes him happy, but it makes me uncomfortable, and I'm sure it makes a lot of other people uncomfortable as well. I think in this case, the voice of the many should be considered more important than anyone's right to have a banner.

[Jason]

Donnie Darko is one damn fine film.

[triceratops]

off topic but its ridiculous how obscenity filter is on by default in this family friendly zone. fuck that.

[death row]

lol so because sum1 wears one of those banners it really "offends" you. give it a rest already. you arent going to save the world of racism through this stupid thread. there is racism everywhere. and i dont think that will ever change. deal with it. do i agree with it? no. but it wont change.

[Na$]

I have a lot of things on my mind when I write a post, sometimes
I forget things when I write about it, and also, I dont want to
spend an hour with writing a post. If you would read all of my
posts on this thread you could see more my point. I assume you
didnt, because I only mentioned the movie in my first point, not
in the others, though I dont find it very important myself.

But I can list my complaints about TW staff here (subject:racism)
- wearing racist banners / offensive banners should be forbidden/
bannable
- wearing racist squadnames / offensive squadnames should be
forbidden
- using racist comments should be bannable

reasons:
- offensive squadnames can only be used for: 1) you are racist ;
2) you want to upset people or provoke them. Either way, its
not considered funny
- offensive banners should be banned for the same reasons.
"But what if a banner has a double meaning ?" then staff has to
decide which meaning is more important. As far as for the
swastika its pretty obvious that since WWII it shouldnt be a
tolerated one.
- also it is clear why racist comments should be bannable, I think
TW Staff already bans for racism in public. But I still think the
territory of those bans are a little vague yet.

I hope this settles the fact that people critizise me for the way
I bring my posts or whatever. I know that I can be quite an
amateur when writing such posts, but that is, like I said before,
because I dont want to take too much time, and I want to write
everything at once ;) so I forget things...


And for the ones who say you cant do anything about racism ?
I know its the past, but same thing was said when black people
were oppressed (?) in America. People like Martin Luther King and
Malcolm X stood up, though Malcolm X was too radical in the
beginning. Ofcourse racism can also work the other way around,
as we can see in Africa (Zimbabwe ?) where white people are
oppressed too... but like I said I am against racism, and in this
game there is racism involved while there shouldnt be.

[Na$]

oh and blast, I dont think you are entitled to say that I dont
know what racism is. Thats a pretty stupid remark because if
I didnt know what racism is, I wouldnt be posting here for
gods sake.

[Annux]

Please stop referring to civil rights leaders when you clearly have no clue what the fuck is coming out of your mouth.

[Oen]

For all the people bringing my name up, in it's Oen Izan form its not Neo Nazi, but if you wish to say it is then go ahead. I like the name, that is why I keep it. I have fabricated many reasons why I choose it. The real reason, Oen Izan is unique and also eye catching, but yes the downfall was the reverse spelling. So If you wanna call me a racist go ahead. You wanna hate me cuz of it. thats your choice. If staff finds it offensive and bans me then I guess I will hafta change it. Till that happens I am going to keep it. So I guess I am a attention craver after all. Good or Bad I just want attention. So I must thank you all for giving me what I so desperately need. Isn't that why we all are here? It's not for the top notch 2d graphics that's for sure. I just hope I haven't hijinxed this thread from it's original intent. What ever you get from this I won't know and for most of you I won't care. Just felt it I needed to ramble on about this.

You people will argue on this topic over and over, but the fact remains. If it's viewed as having a racist nature in real life, so should it be in a online game where people from all walks of life come together. People should just learn to respect each other in a enviroment that we all play. Maybe it will transend into the real world. Show people something positive in this so very negative world. If you have hatefull views, share them with people that have your view and want to hear what you have to say. Stop pushing them on people that don't. I believe everyone has a right to thier own opinion, but they do not have the right to push that opinion on some one that does not share that belief.

think I am done talking now.. I went through and checked for typos and shit so I may have missed some. So mentally fix them for ya self. good day :)

[Superted]

Ok, you're a racist. So am I, who cares. (Racist being that i hate the human race :) )

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Annux
Please stop referring to civil rights leaders when you clearly have no clue what the fuck is coming out of your mouth.
No dude, he saw that movie at least two times.

[Yoshiba]

ghandi is a cool movie, i like, laughed when he died

[Dillusion]

nas.....

your arguement is the same as someone who is crippled can come online and say 'I HATE THE CRIPPLES BANNER, BAN IT FROM THE ZONE' ... it makes no sense , you type and piss and moan for nothing

[Troll King]

The most disturbing part of it, even moreso than Dillusion's dillusions, is the resignation that racist attitudes cannot be changed and thus shouldn't be.

[Annux]

TK, can I elect you for something?

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Troll King
Dillusion's dillusions,
Get your homophones under control, TK. DElusions.

[Louis XV]

Originally posted by ConcreteSchlyrd
homophones

[Dillusion]

Originally posted by ConcreteSchlyrd

Get your homophones under control, TK. DElusions.

i love you

[Troll King]

Way to dodge the issue.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

http://www.nads-sc.uiowa.edu/~scable/pic.jpg

[Na$]

Dillussion: I know what you mean with your banner issue but
still I would like to ask you how a crippled person could be
offended by a crippled banner ?

What I mean is (for the banners)
Someone can be offended by a symbol (banner).
The reason is not the picture itself most of the times, because
its just an image, but because of what the picture stands for:
with a swastika 98% of the people are not thinking of what it
stands for before World War II, because hardly anyone even knew about it. So in our world a swastika represents the Nazi hatism. And I do think people can get offended by that. Unless you deny the fact that there was a holocaust where 6 millions of
jews died and they wanted to wipe out everyone who wasnt
somehow familiar to the superior race.

I think it would be quite interesting to see if other online
interactive games give the possibility aswell to spread hatred.

And also I hear people saying: isnt it great then that people can
wear their own banners, squadnames etc. Isnt that what
makes subspace great, a little piece of freedom etc. Ofcourse its
great to have a game which lets you have some piece of free
movement. And as in many occations things go well at that point.
But then there are allways people who cant deal with that
freedom, so they start to make things a bit their way. Flaming,
trashing, being unfriendly etc etc. Then Staff comes up. Without
staff you would have total anarchism. Thats why rules are set.
Freedom of banners and squadnames are fine, but apparently
people abuse that freedom. Then staff comes up.....
If you guys want freedom of banners and squadnames:
dont abuse it then! But well we are human, so there are allways
rotten apples who just want to be offensive jerks and only care
about themselves. If you want to defend those people's "rights"...
I can only say LOL, since you guys do know what that means.
Thats "cool talk". Being serious in this game "is nerdish".

Peace out
- A nerd who thinks serious ("OMG! its just a game loser")

[Wreckless MiG]

Originally posted by Na$

2) You think DD maybe admires the German strategy in WWII. Lol. How nice. Which strategy ? That it killed 6 millions of Jews ? And that it wanted one superior race, with all other forgein people eliminated ? Or that it somehow got to take over a big part of Europe, and including that, had been able to bomb a lot of big cities, also cities in my country ? That a lot of people had been starving to death, even in my country? And also we are getting quite bad when we are admiring a war... what kind of world is this then huh ? Myself for example, I admire people who are caring for other people. Killing Talibans is one thing, but caring for them is another.

dude, hitler was a genius. (oh no! killing jews is genius?) ok, yeah, the whole jew thing was bad news, but come on, he took like one country a day in the early days. he had brilliant mind. he had a nice army, and he alone took almost all of europe. (exclude france. i could take france, and i cant even kill dark_mistress.)

If he had been america, we woulda won in no time flat. only reason he lost is because in the end it was the fact that we could go anywhere (we had bases everywhere, germany was only germany)

so yeah. i admire germany for that. i dotn admire their sick ways in which they used the military. i dont like his ideas. but i did like his tactical genius.

[Annux]

Hitler was, by far, the worst military tactacian since the French monarchists who kept sending troops to colonies while they were getting guillitiened back in Paris.



1) Hitler did not know how to use his VAST resources. When the Allies were on the verge of liberating France, Hitler was still wasting supplies, equipment, and precious food rations on Concentration camps. Instead of giving guns and aide to troops in the Rhineland, Hitler insisted that Auschwitz supervisors would get 3 meals a day.

2) Hitler did not listen to his military cabinet, which was really responsible for all Nazi victories (and the unsuccesful assissination attempts). Hitler did not want to use the Lufftwaffen in Normandy, so he sent in battle-weary footsoldiers that got demolished and overpowered by a force many times their size.

3) Hitler tried to invade Russia during the winter. I mean, what the fuck? He obviously cut during History lessons.

4) The Nazi-Soviet Pact, which guaranteed a single-front war for the Nazi regime, a peace treaty with Stalin which basically said the mighty Soviet Union (at an army of a million+) won't intervene or join up with the Allies, and the guaranteed acquisition of Poland (although it would be divided, half given to the Soviets), was violated by Hitler -- no matter how much his cabinet advised against it.

5) There is about a billion more things I can include about Hitler's personal faults, ranging from being a failed artist, not getting accepted into an academy in Vienna, failing to rally Germans (at first) using succesful propoganda methods proven to be effective by pre-WW1 politicians to draining resources into unneccesary projects like Museums, Stadiums, and Palaces while he couln't even keep his own borders in check, etc etc etc


To sum up, Hitler was the Sir Gaunt of military strategy. Except Sir Gaunt can't speak German...or English for that matter.

[Annux]

Originally posted by Wreckless MiG


ok, yeah, the whole jew thing was bad news



You have a silver tongue, young one.

[Bigwig]

i feel i should bring up he worked as a house painter and spent time in jail. ok, so maybe a few genius' have spent time in jail, and lots of people paint houses, but it isn't a good sign that he might have been a genius.

[Na$]

how is making plans to takeover the world being genius ?
I think its genius if you can find a cure to aids...
I think war is something awful, so I cant admire someone
who was able to make plans to takeover the world.

I admire people who have actually DONE something to the
world. And I think Napoleon did a 'better job' btw ;)

[pv=nrt]

Originally posted by Na$

I admire people who have actually DONE something to the
world. And I think Napoleon did a 'better job' btw ;)

Napoleon failed too.

[Dillusion]

napoleon tried to drain the florida everglades......um, duh?

[bloodzombie]

I think I agree with dillusion. there's a lot of races that i hate too. the chicago marathon for one... what the fuck are those people trying to prove? the indy 500? yeah, I'd be fast in one of those cars too. There's this 5k run called the "shamrock shuffle" and everyone wears green... buncha fucking pansy lunatics if you ask me.

[The Crimson King]

I think this issue can be understood more easily by considering an analogy to criminal law. (Wow, a surprise, tCK talking about law.)

In a criminal case in the United States, the charge almost invariably has two main elements: mens rea (state of mind, or intent), and actus reus (the act itself). (Your exceptions to the rule generally fall into either (a) strict liability, e.g., statutory rape; and (b) intoxication cases (in which your state of mind is statutorily not a factor, though it's been quite awhile since I studied the Model Penal Code))

(Yeah those aren't literal translations from the latin, I know; and I'm using the word 'elements' in a really general way here.)

Think about calling someone a "shit-knobbed fuckslopping cockjobber." Your intent is to abuse that person. Check one. The words, however, aren't up to the requisite level of offense as defined by staff to send you on a one-week trip to MSN Spades.

Racial slurs, on the other hand, get "the gas face" by staff. Bad intent plus racial slur gets you a happy day trip to monkeyville by the short bus.

(I don't know what that meant either, but it was a beautiful sentence.)

You know, I had a point, but the apex of diminishing returns has been reached. Anyone that cares about this line of reasoning can easily find more material relating to the general concepts mentioned in this post by perusing a google search, or (god forbid!) going to the library (you might want to hit your local law school's law library, or the county law library in any county in the United States; they at least have caselaw records, and probably have a criminal law hornbook in stock).

As always, too much information.

tCK

[pv=nrt]

Originally posted by The Crimson King
get "the gas face" by staff. tCK
I farted in class and my schoolmates made the "gas face" because it stank really bad. i think grapes give me stinky gas.

[Wreckless MiG]

Originally posted by Na$
how is making plans to takeover the world being genius ?
I think its genius if you can find a cure to aids...
I think war is something awful, so I cant admire someone
who was able to make plans to takeover the world.

I admire people who have actually DONE something to the
world. And I think Napoleon did a 'better job' btw ;)

sigh. you dont understand. the mere fact that he was ABLE to do so is a major accomplishment. but, like annux said (which i overlooked) he squandered supplies, and declared war on russia. bad day.

were not debating his values and reasons. were debating his taactics and plans.

[Arilou Lalee'lay]

Racism and discrimination in Trench Wars is illegal.

Why? It propogates hatred and causes problems in a game that should be about having fun and relaxation.

Discriminatory remarks, names and squadnames which clearly refer to racism are prohibited. These people will be warned and banned if necessary.

Where do you draw the line? People are entitled to have their own opinion, but it is the way they express it that makes it tolerable or not. Still, it is a complicated issue and no real 'line' can be drawn, just a grey area. Staff has to decide on the fly, which can cause small indescrepancies between the way each staff member handles it. As always, if you feel you have been wronged contact one of the upper staff members.

As for Oen's name and the Swastika banner, thus far they have caused little to no problems (apart from interesting and educational discussions). However this may yet change and actions will be taken accordingly at that point.


Nice Pants!

[Cops]

I read half of the post's cause what am i going to read like 50 long ones, anyways yes racism is a hard issue to deal with but dude honestly its a 2d spaceship game with a chat system.
Since were on the topic when black people say the n word to eachother its ment as hello, how can so much hate as you say mean hello. But if a white person sais the N word to a black person most likely you will get hit-hurt-injured or dead. To leave this issue alone evreyone would have to leave it alone ie no one sais the n word and no one uses nazi banner's. And if you ban the nazi banners from ss about 400 people will wear them just to piss staff off. But hell good luck Na$ on your conquest to rid the world of ignorance. And try not to start in a 2d spaceship game where the average age is 10 and the iq is below 50.

[Pio]

Originally posted by Dillusion


ok, so i'll explain? do you know why they bring it upon themselves? its because of what they do, and how they act. the black girls in school think they are the greatest thing, they think they have the right of way, they just plow through the halls like fat fucks thinking they can do whatever they want because no matter where they go, there is a 'brotha' or a 'homie' lying around somewhere. its because black people lye on the doors at school, blocking them and using them as a backrest instead of something to walk through. they talk loudly and piss and moan all day about why there are no black people on the school calendar, and why the white kids are always doing better than them. they expect everything to be handed to them on a gold plated fucking dish. they fail their classes and all they do is make the principal hire another security guard every school year.

they hang out after school and say faggot things like 'whut son' and 'haha kid' while people walk by. i guess it makes them feel better because they know they are fucking useless wastes of space. when walking through the hallways all you hear is some screechy black girls voice go YO DAWG AHAHA ***** SHEET. they dont even belong in this school. for some background information, the school is on the border of coral springs (the white kid town where all te houses are 200k and up) and tamarac (the older city with fuckshit property sale and black people). if the school cut off and actually checked where kids came from, 90% of the school would be white, and be full of passing students. instead, they are forced to take in these black people and the school is how it is right now.

black people sit at home, draining tax money with wellfare, and food stamps, with tax money from people who actually worked for it, and what do they do? they get themselves a gun and land on the front of the newspaper and on the first story in the news. in south florida, its a regular thing to see a black man in his 15-50's on the news saying 'killed or shot someone' somehow with something.

last week, 5 million some odd dollars was given to miami ghetto fuck black school to make them 'succeed'. well hey , microsoft pitched in and gave every classroom a class set of labtops with wireless internet, and HEY GUESS WHAT! THEY WERE ALL FUCKING STOLEN AND USED TO LOOK AT PUFFDADDY.COM, this will teach jeb bush a lesson next time a under achieving school thats 99 percent black people asks for money and supplies.

that is why white people are annoyed and dont like black people, dont get me wrong, i do have some black friends, some are cool and dont say 'damn white kids' and go 'whut whut g-***** whut'. k, na$ir?


omfg. a class set of laptops? what the fuck .. my school is 89% white and we don't have that shit.. Hell we had to buy our teachers paper because of a budget cut.


Even though my school is dominatly white, we still get the "white boy" and other racial slurs. I suppose its ok for them to call us "white boys" but not ok for us to call them "******s". Because you don't see any "******" getting into trouble for saying this.

Also.. for you White Kids who get picked on by Blacks.. Don't be afraid if you actually stand up for yourself the Black guy 80% of the time will get scared and back off, and just keep talking shit to you. (woudlnt' do this if you was by yourself and surrounded by a few dozen blacks).

I used to be racist.. Not really anymore due to the Maturing process. I just don't like to be discrimated againt for our ancisters doings a few hundred years go. I say, black people need to grow up and mature and stop acting like dumb asses and be productive.

[KayinNasaki]

its sad how true it is. young black people dont realize that racism is a two way thing.

[Malice Mutt]

Originally posted by KayinNasaki
its sad how true it is. young black people dont realize that racism is a two way thing.

[Malice Mutt]

I can relate to Dillusion when i was in high school thats exactly what happened. Whether or not you'd like to believe it is up to you. Its terrible... :( all the white students were called white shit, cracker, powder, snow, white boy. They'd parade around the school purposely saying it to your face, " what tha fuk you gonna do fukin cracka huh!? nothin honky" try saying something back and 20 people would be beating the hell out of you and just wait till the rest of the school heard about it... I had to condition myself to block out all the bullshit i had to deal with on a daily basis. All of you people that claim your not racist is because racism hasn't happened to you. Try dealing with being called bullshit names for years and not being able to do a damn thing about it. :mad:

[Na$]

Well I agree that racism is not only the case with black people, I
do know that there are black people who are racist too. But in
this game I see more uberwhiteshit than uberblackshit. I want to
get rid of all racism related things in TW. Ofcourse thats an utopia,
but well, that is MY problem.

[Ziba]

OK guys, honestly. I think that it's time to give up this topic. Na$, you're just dragging this out for as long as you possibly can -- with, what it seems, for no reason. OK, granted, there are some racist comments, and granted, there are a few "offensive" banners people wear, but WHO CARES. Look, you don't even KNOW the person -- you guys who get offended by this stuff take it WAY too seriously. Sure, I think the problem should be addressed, but like this?... no.

[Verthanthi]

Originally posted by Ziba
OK guys, honestly. I think that it's time to give up this topic.

Bumping threads up is a good way to let them die.