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Ravage
12-31-2002, 02:23 AM
3 members of the elite veteran force -Legacy- took it upon themselves to play the staff for fools. In response a certain unknown staff member abused and banned 1 of them for no reason. You might say mistakes happen ? Well thats not what this person says because he himself is a Ex Mod.

On Monday around 1am Gryll of Chaos was banned for abusing. The powers of which he abused with are non existent because he left staff months ago. His friends Reverendz and Ronin (the infamous Los Ojos Del Dios) were making false help calls claiming that Gryll had specced and *kill them.
Melo <ER> and Cpt.Guano! <ER> showed up to the public tryout arena for a nubie squad After some time of lissening to Reverendz and Ronin claim Gryll was disconnectiing and specced them Gryll of Chaos was banned but for no reason with official proof. This is abuse by the staff. These 3 fun speakers made fools out of the staff who is now obviously known to not be capable of their duties.

Later Gryll was unbanned because they realized they were idiots. Staff later claimed that he had never been banned and wud not admit to anyone being at fault for the (claim Gryll and his friends had filed). THE PUSHER said that no history of the ban was evident but certain staff members claimed it had happened. This is a conspiracy to hide the truth that the staff abused 1 of their own Ex Members and refuses to take responsibility for their actions.

I believe the man is owed a apology and the right to know who banned him. Perhaps the victim shud file a complaint about the staff member.

stark
12-31-2002, 02:48 AM
apparently "the victim" can't speak for himself?

Dim
12-31-2002, 06:27 AM
Thats what i was gonna say

Webbb Llama v1.5
12-31-2002, 06:35 AM
Ravage when you left Melee you gave out the chat and pw, right?


I like Gryll, I saw him today but he didn't seem to care as much as you do.

Superted
12-31-2002, 08:39 AM
He's unbanned right?
Then it doesn't matter.

DarK!
12-31-2002, 09:45 AM
That isnt the point, he should not have been banned in the first place, its not hard to figure out if someone is/isnt staff, hell they could have looked on the staff chat, plus they did not see any abuse by Gryll seeing as how he couldnt even use powers not being on staff and all. If it was a smod that banned him i spit on him, they can use *listmod and see for sure. He does deserve an apology.

Verthanthi
12-31-2002, 10:04 AM
Didn't think <ER>s could ban.

Rodge_Rabbit
12-31-2002, 10:56 AM
What i have read is it that some Event Ref's have Bang acces, some don't . Further, someone quoted it already in the same thread but on a different forum:

I think your complain is in the wrong place:

Staff complaints and compliments
KJW - Dec 18, 2002

We now have a new e-mail address for any problems you may have with any TW staff member(s). To register any complaints about a staff member, e-mail your side of the story to complaints@trenchwars.org. You may also e-mail the same address for any staff member(s) you think did something above and beyond the call of duty. You may or may not get a reply, but be assured all complaints will be investigated further.

Greetings,

warportal
12-31-2002, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Ravage
3 members of the elite veteran force -Legacy- took it upon themselves to play the staff for fools. In response a certain unknown staff member abused and banned 1 of them for no reason. You might say mistakes happen ? Well thats not what this person says because he himself is a Ex Mod.

On Monday around 1am Gryll of Chaos was banned for abusing. The powers of which he abused with are non existent because he left staff months ago. His friends Reverendz and Ronin (the infamous Los Ojos Del Dios) were making false help calls claiming that Gryll had specced and *kill them.
Melo <ER> and Cpt.Guano! <ER> showed up to the public tryout arena for a nubie squad After some time of lissening to Reverendz and Ronin claim Gryll was disconnectiing and specced them Gryll of Chaos was banned but for no reason with official proof. This is abuse by the staff. These 3 fun speakers made fools out of the staff who is now obviously known to not be capable of their duties.

Later Gryll was unbanned because they realized they were idiots. Staff later claimed that he had never been banned and wud not admit to anyone being at fault for the (claim Gryll and his friends had filed). THE PUSHER said that no history of the ban was evident but certain staff members claimed it had happened. This is a conspiracy to hide the truth that the staff abused 1 of their own Ex Members and refuses to take responsibility for their actions.

I believe the man is owed a apology and the right to know who banned him. Perhaps the victim shud file a complaint about the staff member.


So you stage an illegal act to lure a staffmember into taking actions against him and then u accuse him of abuse?
I wish they banned all 3 of u stupid morons. Be thankful for their time and effort in stead of obsessing about finding something to pin them on. Nobody is perfect but people like you make being staff a shitty and depressing job.

ReverendZ
12-31-2002, 11:56 AM
It isnt that we wanted to show how they abused etc, it just worked out that way. what else much is there in TW at 1am when sleep is not an option? All of you can agree with me when i say that shit is funnier when you're sleepy, and lemme tell ya this made me laugh my ass off. If any of you were there at the time you would agree. Plus, I think Dark said it right. Its easy to tell he isn't really on staff. As former Smod of 1st Strike, we had things like this happen also, but a simple *listmod could show that "Gryll" was not actually loged in. Work Smarter, not Harder.

ZeUs!!
12-31-2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Ravage
3 members of the elite veteran force -Legacy- took it upon themselves to play the staff for fools. In response a certain unknown staff member abused and banned 1 of them for no reason. You might say mistakes happen ? Well thats not what this person says because he himself is a Ex Mod.

On Monday around 1am Gryll of Chaos was banned for abusing. The powers of which he abused with are non existent because he left staff months ago. His friends Reverendz and Ronin (the infamous Los Ojos Del Dios) were making false help calls claiming that Gryll had specced and *kill them.
Melo <ER> and Cpt.Guano! <ER> showed up to the public tryout arena for a nubie squad After some time of lissening to Reverendz and Ronin claim Gryll was disconnectiing and specced them Gryll of Chaos was banned but for no reason with official proof. This is abuse by the staff. These 3 fun speakers made fools out of the staff who is now obviously known to not be capable of their duties.

Later Gryll was unbanned because they realized they were idiots. Staff later claimed that he had never been banned and wud not admit to anyone being at fault for the (claim Gryll and his friends had filed). THE PUSHER said that no history of the ban was evident but certain staff members claimed it had happened. This is a conspiracy to hide the truth that the staff abused 1 of their own Ex Members and refuses to take responsibility for their actions.

I believe the man is owed a apology and the right to know who banned him. Perhaps the victim shud file a complaint about the staff member.
In case you didn't know, Gryll went off to the army a little while ago, and Ravage owns his name. The reason Ravage is pissed that Gryll was banned is that Ravage is Gryll and Ravage was banned (if someone was ever banned).

THE PUSHER
12-31-2002, 01:17 PM
I'm glad you all found this amusing. Allow me to share a little something with you.

The following things are illegal in Trench Wars:

1. Cheating (no warning) or abusing bugs in the game.
2. Third party programs, such as debuggers (EG: SoftIce), bots, cheats, etc.
3. Deliberate or excessive team killing. Including team killing somebody back!
4. Discrimination, racism, childporn or anything related to it inside the game.
This includes but is not restricted to names, squad names and banners.
5. Excessive and deliberate verbal harassment, spamming or flooding of public
or private channels. If it is less serious the victim(s) will be advised to
use '?ignore Name', ESC I (for public macros) or change their ?chat.
6. Flooding and spamming rules also apply to the ?cheater and ?help commands.
Use ?cheater only for reporting cheaters or team killers. Use ?help only
for asking game related questions.
7. Advertising other zones is not illegal, however bothering people with
private ad messages or flooding the public chats with it is!
8. Manipulating your lag, no matter how this is accomplished (downloads, modem
feature, program). Non-abusing players exhibiting extreme lag will be asked
to reconnect to the zone. Refusal may result in a forced kick off the zone.
9. Using spectator mode to locate and hunt a specific enemy (spec hunting).
10. One person running multiple Subspace/Continuum clients at the same time.
11. Going outside the map boundaries, no matter how this is accomplished.
12. Idle players may be put into spectator mode, so other people get a chance
to play in that team or arena. A small ban may be issued in extreme cases.
13. Pretending to be a staff member, for example by threatening to ban people or
wearing a <ZH> or <ER> tag. Also, if your name is too similar to that of a
moderator you may be asked to change or adjust it to avoid confusion.
14. Violating event rules in (sub)arenas hosted by a referee or in (Base)Elim.
Rules and warnings are usually given in the form of (green) arena messages,
so pay attention to them.
15. Being disruptive to the game in any other way than listed above.

Let us first talk about abuse of ?help and ?cheater. Actually, I shouldn't have to, you abused those channels by reporting false claims. Last time I checked, that is a bannable offense. By your own admission, the parties in question committed flagrant abuse of those systems by repeatedly filing false claims with the Staff on duty.

Next let us talk about impersonation of staff. As you can see in Trench Wars Rule #13, it states that impersonation of staff is an illegal and bannable offense. Yes Gryll is not a staff member, and yes the Staff on duty would have been able to tell that right away. However, the repeated ?cheater and ?help calls would have led the attending Staff members to believe that indeed there was foul play afoot. Also, it is very easy for a Staff member who responds to such calls to be decieved. 99% of the time when a Staff member with a, ER or ZH tag enters an arena to repsond to a call, that players stops instantly since the tag gives the presence of staff away. The player was banned by judgement of the responding Staff member, in accordance with the guidelines set for Staff and players in this zone to follow. The ban was also lifted, once it was learned to be an erroneous ban.

Finally, let's talk about this ex-staff member, Gryll of Chaos. If I am not mistaken, I was told by the parties in question, that it indeed was not Gryll himself using that name, but a person that Gryll entrusted with his password. This is not impersonation of Staff alone, since Gryll is no longer a member of Staff. The repeated ?help and ?cheater, as I stated above, would have led the attending mods to believe that abuse was true.

This was not an instance of Staff abuse, this was an instance of Staff being manipulated by some kids who just wanted to have a good time at the expense of others. Rules were broken here, but the bans should have been given to the ?help/cheater abusers, not the person who was using Gryll's name. The attending Staff members did what they were supposed to do, unfortunately they were taken advantage of in order to create some type of conspiracy theory that Staff is out to make your life hell. This issue is moot at his point, the bans were lifted shortly after being placed, and I am sure no one was harmed by not being able to play this game for 20 minutes. My suggestion is to drop this issue, before someone decides to start browsing the server logs for the ?help/cheater calls and pass out the proper bans for abuse of those channels.

If you have any more complaints about this issue, please contact complaints@trenchwars.org, and the SMOD who imposed the initial ban (yes it was an SMOD who did the banning) or another ranking Staff member will be happy to respond to you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also on the issue of being asked to divulge the information as to who banned you. We, as Staff members, hold the implicit right not to discuss the situational aspects of any ban with anyone except the party in question. This includes the events leading up to the ban, the ban itself, the length of said ban, and the judgement of the Staff member who imposed the ban. However we have been quite open about the instances of bans and such, and will continue to do so.

Ravage
12-31-2002, 01:18 PM
Suppose I forgot to mention Da Farmer! was there also. Course I doubt it was him because..well he's 2 nice. Well PUSHER the person banned was not the 1 sending the help or cheater calls . :) Also Gryll was not warned.

stark
12-31-2002, 01:47 PM
not that i care or agree with rav or anything, but push, before you edited that post didn't you deny any bannings?

THE PUSHER
12-31-2002, 01:48 PM
Nope, the only editing I did to the post was my last statement. In its previous form it denoted an air of tyrranical oppression, and I did not want it to sound that way.

stark
12-31-2002, 02:18 PM
death to the infidels!

Dim
12-31-2002, 02:29 PM
Why didnt you screenshot anything?

Read Pushers sig :p

FLaBiN
12-31-2002, 06:58 PM
Ravage, your claim that these staffers did something wrong is false. Let me tell the whole story.

We were getting calls about Gryll of Chaos over a period of time, so several staffers went to investigate since there were calls of mod abuse. Obviously this wasn't the original Gryll of Chaos since he had left for the army several months ago and his mod powers were removed. The other day we had a claim that Gryll of Chaos' name was stolen. Knowing Gryll of Chaos for a long time, I didn't believe he would be pretending to be spectating people and locking an arena. Since a report was made that his name was stolen a few days ago, I figured the culprit who had stolen his name was using it. Because of this I banned Gryll of Chaos. After the ban was issued I had noticed that the person using this name was Ravage. After researching this, I noticed that Ravage was a friend of Gryll of Chaos and because of this the ban was lifted thinking that Gryll of Chaos gave his name to Ravage voluntarily.

From the looks of this thread, Ravage used the name Gryll of Chaos as mod impersonation. If Gryll of Chaos did give his name to you, I feel sorry for Gryll since you went abusing his name with Reverendz and Ronin. If you did steal Gryll of Chaos' name, then I guess we will just have to re-issue the ban. Also you did abuse for mod impersonation, but I lifted the ban not knowing at the time you were pretending to have mod powers.

If you have more questions or complaints about staff members. I recommend you use the complaints@trenchwars.org

Cig Smoke
12-31-2002, 11:29 PM
all u staffers who did reply to this did make some very good points that they could be banned in different ways..but u also tried to route the ppl to seeing that instead of ur <ER>'s not investigating enough b4 banning which is what ravage was pointing out the 1st place i belive...so instead of what ur doing dont change the topic plz

wadi
01-01-2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by Cig Smoke
all u staffers who did reply to this did make some very good points that they could be banned in different ways..but u also tried to route the ppl to seeing that instead of ur <ER>'s not investigating enough b4 banning which is what ravage was pointing out the 1st place i belive...so instead of what ur doing dont change the topic plz

Cig, read flabin's post. The suspension of the account was done by flabin, not an ER, and over a legitimate concern for the reputation of Gryll of Chaos. I'd like to thank ravage for posting on this thread, for I now can fix him squarely in the constellation of complete idiots who I avoid in my jaunts through trench. What really surprises me is that these "elite" dumbasses didn't receive minor bans for abusing help.

Cig Smoke
01-01-2003, 10:43 AM
i still think dark! said it the best

Tera
01-01-2003, 10:46 AM
FU FATTIES

k tnx

Gryll of Chaos
01-01-2003, 10:40 PM
Lol wow take a pill people, come home from basic training and i find myself hearing the same things from when i left :p But what i really posted is to say hi to every one and by as i leave friday for 17 weeks of advanced individual training. You guys are just lucky your crackheads didnt keep me up all night and out of school enuff to not get a decent job :p I will be messing around with comps and networks so i will very likly see you again in the future...peace.
The real Gryll of Chaos

Kid Kaos
01-02-2003, 04:05 AM
Hahahahaha, what I gathered form this is that staff were the ones who got abused here. Used and abused. And ravage never impersonated staff, reverndz and los ojos seemed to have set it all up. He never said they were being banned and that he had powers. And if what flabin said was true, he didnt do his homework right away either. Banning before confirming is not very smart.

Dim
01-02-2003, 02:23 PM
the pushers post was best since it was longest and he spent time writing it :p

Lol :)

Ravage
01-02-2003, 10:20 PM
Exactly Kid, I just sat there and did not say "im a mod and im speccing u." Flabin before investigating himself banned on the belief that 2 people spamming ?help were giving serious complaints. So theres still no reason for the banning except for staff cannot decide who is 1 of their own or they are just implusive to be rid of any problems which can be solved by simple means.

Cpt.Guano!
01-02-2003, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Ravage
Exactly Kid, I just sat there and did not say "im a mod and im speccing u." Flabin before investigating himself banned on the belief that 2 people spamming ?help were giving serious complaints. So theres still no reason for the banning except for staff cannot decide who is 1 of their own or they are just implusive to be rid of any problems which can be solved by simple means.

You were pming me saying that you were abusing your powers and that abusing was fun. You also admitted to speccing them... that sounds like pretending to be a mod to me.

Troll King
01-02-2003, 11:12 PM
Question for Ravage: Do you consider staff to be entirely at fault in all this, or would you actually concede some guilt of your own in all this? From what I've read in this thread, you've seemed to have done quite a job at covering yourself with teflon.

ConcreteSchlyrd
01-02-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Ravage
elite veteran force
Nine times out of ten, people talking like this are in the wrong.

Ravage
01-08-2003, 02:09 AM
Point> still banned for inccorect reason.

Wheres my official apology :

Fit of Rage
01-08-2003, 03:27 PM
you got your explanation. i dont think they need to apologize profusly, especially since it wasnt your name in the first place :rolleyes:

Tigerex
01-09-2003, 04:17 AM
In my opinion you should be banned for a longer period now. I can't justify it however. The Ban was lifted quickly and for your mod impersonation you should be banned for at least one day yourself, i wonder if we could arrange that.

King Missile
01-09-2003, 09:18 AM
1 day???


thas no punishment id say...


weeks... at least