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Pooh Bear
02-18-2006, 10:57 PM
Who would you choose as the best basketball player ever to grace the sport?
I'm going for Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain, tie. They both changed the game to what it is today because of how they played.

Sleuth
02-19-2006, 12:01 AM
I know everyone says this pretty much, but Jordan.

DoTheFandango
02-19-2006, 01:36 AM
Larry Bird.

http://espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/larry_bird_245x325.jpg

phata$$
02-19-2006, 02:37 AM
There are so many great basketball players, but for the greatest I would have to say Magic Johnson because no one has his style. Bird fundamentaly is great but Magic brought out more excitement in my opinion.

Subjugation
02-19-2006, 07:26 AM
Jordan, without a doubt. True, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Magic were all great players, but Jordan had the total package. Jordan was a great leader, he had athleticism, the mental game, pit-bull style competetiveness, he had a heart-of-a-champion, and a genius level basketball IQ---all combined into one player.

He had everything all of those other greats had, but Jordan constantly pushed himself to improve his all-around game. When they said he couldn't play defense, he became the best defender in the game. When they said he couldn't shoot the 3, he became a great 3-point shooter. When age started affecting his athleticism, he evolved his game to a more shooting-oriented style, and he was still one of the top 3 players in the league, if not the best.

He won scoring titles...MVP awards...won the defensive player of the year award...first team all defense awards...and many, many more accolades.

Of course, Russell and Wilt dominated in their era, but basketball was not very evolved at the time. It's like when Major League Soccer started in the US, and all the Latinos and Euros were dominating the matches against the less experienced, less talented Americans. The old-school hoop game couldn't have attracted the kind of talent it had in the 80's and 90's because it didn't offer the multi-million dollar contracts it does today. Jordan played his best basketball against a league that had world-class talent.

Royst
02-20-2006, 09:41 PM
Don't forget to mention he played for the Chicago White Sox and batted .202

Pooh Bear
02-23-2006, 12:48 AM
what were his motives to start playing baseball anyway?

404 Not Found
02-23-2006, 07:35 AM
Don't forget to mention he played for the Chicago White Sox and batted .202

He played for the Chi Sox Minor League team.

.202 hmm can you say Mendoza Line?...well close to it...if only he hit .200 then he could have been in the all time crap baseball player listing for batting Avg....but still this was in the minor leagues.

404 Not Found
02-23-2006, 07:38 AM
I would have picked Julius Irving over Bird anyday. This is an odd thread beacuse it should be based on basketball position, such a center, point guard and so on.

But as for the all time best...Chamberlain/Jordan/Russell. I like all three.

WuTang420
02-23-2006, 11:55 AM
did we all forget Kareem Abdul Jabar? magic's right hand man?

404 Not Found
02-23-2006, 11:59 AM
did we all forget Kareem Abdul Jabar? magic's right hand man?

Your absolutely correct!!!! How I could forget Mr. Cinder!!!!

WuTang420
02-23-2006, 12:01 PM
yeah man i remember watching them play at like 10 yrs old, even that young i was still like " damn those 2 own EVERYONE"

Pooh Bear
02-24-2006, 12:38 AM
i think the pistons have a very deep lineup, and probably will win another title. it's like the old celtics all over again

Divine Rides
03-14-2006, 07:11 AM
what were his motives to start playing baseball anyway?

a lot of people think that he was forced out of basketball because of his gambling debts, a lot of people think this is why his father was killed too.

He is, in my mind, the best player ever. The Big O averaging a triple double for an entire season is awesome, obviously Wilt is in the conversation, I guess I just don't think the level of competition or depth of the game was as strong in those days (also i've only seen them play in highlights and that takes something away from them). I think Jordan had some very fortunate circumstances fall into place for him, but the guy is the absolute truth.

The best player in the league right now is Kobe Bryant, I know, I know he's a total prick, and those of you who can't see the league objectively are going to argue, but it's Kobe ya'll. I've hated him his entire career, seems like a total douche to me, but when my favorite player (Lamar Odom) got traded to the Lakers I ended up seeing almost every laker game the last two years (and i'd seen quite a bit of him before the) and I'm telling you there's nobody touching this guy- we're going to miss his game so badly when he's gone, he's disgustingly good, he's an ice man. Lebron, T-mac, KG, D Wade, nothing but love for them, but Kobe is a step above, if not in just in skill, in his mentality and killer instinct. The guy is fucking ridiculous and I'm having a hard time hating him because he's such a joy to watch, it's beautiful.

Pooh Bear
03-14-2006, 09:35 PM
kobe is like the old tmac of the magic. their new roster is just not experienced enough with playing with each other to start owning up games in my opinion. give it a season or two i guess.

gran guerrero
03-15-2006, 12:02 AM
dwayne wade

Royst
03-16-2006, 09:59 AM
Best point guard? John Stockton?

Right now it's Steve Nash, no doubt

Kim
03-16-2006, 11:17 AM
Dwayne wade is gonna make it big, give him a few years, he's still very young.

Soilderz
03-16-2006, 11:30 AM
magic,kobe,larry

Nethila
03-16-2006, 01:29 PM
guards are taking over the leauge

gran guerrero
03-16-2006, 03:32 PM
wade EXPLODED in the post season of his rookie year.
right now hes half way through his third.
and averying 30 something points 6 assists and rebounds.
his rookie year was 15 points then year afterward he jumped up to at like 25, now hes going 30-35...a few years he will be a basketball god.

sure james and everyone is doing good but they arent winners like wade.
wade knows how to win games. he feels no pressure.
plus hes gradually improving each year where james is just at a constant of staying at the tripple double which is good mind you but until u get ur team into the playoffs and win with that then your great.

megaman89
03-16-2006, 04:26 PM
Jordan. Duh?

tD.
03-30-2006, 01:50 PM
Nobody... I am better than them all.

They all suck.

:P

Divine Rides
04-02-2006, 03:59 AM
battle of the next generation tonight. D. Wade vs. The King.

Dwayne Wade- 44 points, 8 rebounds, 9 assists, 2 steals, and 1 block (only 1 turnover)

Lebron James- 47 points, 12 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals (4 TO)


deeeeeesgusting. nice work boys. Class of 2003 is boss.

gran guerrero
04-02-2006, 12:44 PM
wade was alone that day, no shaq no zo

james' team was no excuse if they dont have him they lose.

wade is much smaller than james but wade had cover him because no one else could on the team.

injuries better stop for the heat before playoffs or im going to cry.

all in all 03 class is the best.
Wade, James, Melo, Chris Bosh, Josh howard, (DARKO lololol), Hinrich, TJ Ford, Luke Ridnour, David West, Boris Diaw....

Divine Rides
04-03-2006, 12:42 AM
they may end up being the best, but there's that one class from like, 96 maybe, that is the best ever.

Divine Rides
04-03-2006, 12:45 AM
Kobe
Iverson
Nash
Jermaine O'Neal
Ray Allen
Starbury
Peja
Camby
SAR
Toine Walker
Big Z
Big Ben

that's like, a mind blowing list to look at. If KG had played one year of college he'd be there too.

PaulOakenfold
04-03-2006, 01:22 AM
Ray Allen

AHAHAH

Divine Rides
04-03-2006, 04:05 AM
what's funny? i'm not a big ray fan, i liked him better on the bucks and as Jesus Shuttlesworth, but he's a legit all star and a big part of an impressive class. Did you not read correctly or did I miss something?

Subjugation
04-03-2006, 02:00 PM
Shawn Kemp

Don't call it a comeback, ni**az...

gran guerrero
04-03-2006, 08:34 PM
shawn kemp to rejoin gary payton with the miami heat organization

Pooh Bear
04-04-2006, 12:32 AM
whatever happened to that one dude.. timmy hardaway

Fidel Castro
04-04-2006, 01:21 AM
He got old, but Golden State used to be the shit back in the day with him, Chris Mullin, and Mitch Richmond.

LaG KiLLeR
04-04-2006, 01:51 AM
He got old, but Golden State used to be the shit back in the day with him, Chris Mullin, and Mitch Richmond.


hell yeah, they had webber, latrell before he choked the coach. and shit man, in the past few years, if they had money, they'd still have jamison, arenas, hughes, d. marshall, D. forte, to go along with the players they got now, bDavis, richardson, dunleavy

Divine Rides
04-04-2006, 05:44 AM
He got old, but Golden State used to be the shit back in the day with him, Chris Mullin, and Mitch Richmond.

"Run TMC"




I got to be a ball boy for a golden state warrior exhibition game when I was a kid, it was Sprewell's rookie year and we were pulling jerseys out of a bag and handing them to the players in the locker room and I didn't know who he was and asked "Spreh-well?". Chris Mullin was kind of a dick, he wouldn't let us sit on the bench so he could put his foot up and said shit like "get me a coke"

genocidal
04-04-2006, 06:10 AM
Taureen Green, Lee Humphrey, Corey Brewer, Joakim Noah, and Al Horford.
But seriously Jordan.

Kid Kaos
04-04-2006, 01:25 PM
Best point guard? John Stockton?



No no no. Stockton was shit. Always was.

The best point guard to ever play the game was Magic Johnson.

Pearl Jam
04-04-2006, 04:16 PM
No no no. Stockton was shit. Always was.

hahah

OK KID KAOS

PH
04-04-2006, 04:27 PM
Credibility!

Yeah, I hated the Jazz because they used to give my Rockets such fits, but even I had to admire Stockton's leadership on the court. Look up "point guard" and his picture is there. Magic, great as he was, couldn't touch Stockton as a PG.

But this is about the best player, and IMO anyone who goes against #23 in that respect may not be quite right in the head.

Torn Wing
04-05-2006, 12:04 AM
Pistol Pete. You're all stupid.

Fidel Castro
04-05-2006, 12:17 AM
Stockton never won an mvp award, much less a championship, so theres no way you can consider him to be the best pg ever. But he did make Karl Malone look a lot better than he really was.

Fidel Castro
04-05-2006, 12:21 AM
And as far as Pistol Pete is concerned, he did his best work in college against far inferior opponents.

PH
04-05-2006, 02:46 AM
I'm pretty sure B.J. Armstrong was the point guard during the Bulls' three consecutive title runs from '91 to '93. By your logic Armstrong was a better point guard than John Stockton because of those titles. That's absolutely fucking retarded. Jordan's godlike abilities carried that entire team to those titles. Armstrong was a mediocre player who rode on the coattails of greatness. Which I can understand, because a player like Jordan comes along once in a lifetime (that's right Kobe fans, sit the fuck down), and when he does that's all you really can do.

Now, during these years and beyond, Stockton got to work with uh, "talent" like.. Greg Ostertag? Adam Keefe? Blue Edwards? Try as he might, even with the help of Malone and the occasional spark from guys like Jeff Hornacek, Stockton couldn't carry the miserable farces that got passed off as his supporting casts to the promised land.

A great point guard doesn't put up 50 a night: he controls the game. He's the general in a five-on-five war. Stockton didn't have an invincible soldier like Jordan to turn loose and wreak havoc, but he made everybody around him better. You can't say that about B.J. Armstrong, and you can't say it about ANY point guard, past or present, to anywhere near the same extent as you can say it about John Stockton.

Fidel Castro
04-05-2006, 12:31 PM
What you said about bj armstrong isnt even relevant because of the reasons you stated: he was mediocre and he had Jordan, and he was never even an allstar. Nobody in their right mind would ever consider him to be anything other than average. I was just stating that there are pg's out there such as Bob Cousy who won mvps and titles unlike Stockton so therefore I would rank them higher. Hell even Steve Nash won an mvp, and hes prolly gonna win another this year, and next year he may even win a title with Amare coming back. You know how many pgs won back to back mvps? None.

Anyways, much of the reason why Stockton was any good was because of his coach. Jerry Sloan is one of the most underrated coaches ever, and I dont think Stockton would have been half the player he was without Sloan. Look at the Jazz since Stockton retired, they havent dropped off much. If he was as good as everyone says he was the Jazz wouldnt have won 20 games a year since he left.

gran guerrero
04-05-2006, 03:57 PM
actually jazz hasnt been wat was since malone and stockton left
this year they are actually doing better with some of the youth they added.
and i wouldnt say sloan is underrated, maybe in some fans eyes that dont know the nba, but the superstars >.> but sloan is always praised by other coaches and players, etc. sloan is a little too old though and he might be losing his touch just a little, but in order for the jazz to be successfull is to do what they did with their players this year and get some youth, i highly think its just about the right time for sloan to retire, im not saying he sucks im saying he should just step down for the better of the organization. it needs energy but all they been doing is getting injuries.

Pooh Bear
04-06-2006, 12:18 AM
aurbach

Pearl Jam
04-06-2006, 06:39 AM
Look at the Jazz since Stockton retired, they havent dropped off much.

are you serious? yes they have

basketball is the game with the ball that bounces off the ground

Pooh Bear
04-06-2006, 06:34 PM
kevin garnett should be transferred somewhere else

Subjugation
04-06-2006, 07:44 PM
Stockton never won an mvp award, much less a championship, so theres no way you can consider him to be the best pg ever. But he did make Karl Malone look a lot better than he really was.

Lol, that's so stupid it's actually funny. They met the Bulls in the finals a million times in a row and you make them sound like they're a pair of scrubs. ^-^

I'm not saying he is the best ever, but he's definitely on a very short list---top 5, at least.

Verthanthi
04-06-2006, 08:31 PM
kevin garnett should be transferred somewhere else
Completely disagree. There is little I like more in an athlete than devotion to a team.

Fidel Castro
04-06-2006, 09:31 PM
Lol, that's so stupid it's actually funny. They met the Bulls in the finals a million times in a row and you make them sound like they're a pair of scrubs. ^-^
So twice = a million now?



are you serious? yes they have

basketball is the game with the ball that bounces off the ground
2002 Jazz 44-38
2003 Jazz (Stocktons last year and Malones last with the Jazz) 47-35
2004 Jazz 42-40

Like I said, they didnt drop off much, until 05 when Kirelinko was hurt all year. Next time you should know the facts before acting like I'm stupid.

Troll King
04-06-2006, 11:21 PM
They didn't make the playoffs in 2004 without Stockton, so I'd still call that a drop.

Subjugation
04-07-2006, 12:05 AM
So twice = a million now?

Duh, sarcasm.

But the Jazz made the playoffs every year in the 90's, and not counting those two trips to the finals, they went to the WCF 3 out of 5 times. They were THE premiere WC team in the mid 90's. That wouldn't have happened if Stockton, Malone and Horny weren't great players.

Anyway, there's no point in debating this further. It's not like I'm going to get convinced John Stockton wasn't one of the greatest ever. LOL. ^-^

PH
04-07-2006, 12:19 AM
I love not having to defend my point of view since 3 people are already doing it for me. :turned:

Pure_Luck
04-07-2006, 01:25 AM
in 2005 they were like 26-56, I would call that a rebuilding year. Now they are sorta working their way back with their new fresh players. John Stockton was one of the best pure point guards to play. I dunno if I would put him at the top even though he was my favorite player. He was one of the most dirty players to play as well. Fiesty bastard. I don't think anyone would argue that he didn't make his team play better if you see the talent he had to go along with malone it was pretty shitty and they still made the finals 2 years in a row. They never had a center and their role players weren't anything special.

Pearl Jam
04-07-2006, 07:38 AM
So twice = a million now?



2002 Jazz 44-38
2003 Jazz (Stocktons last year and Malones last with the Jazz) 47-35
2004 Jazz 42-40

Like I said, they didnt drop off much, until 05 when Kirelinko was hurt all year. Next time you should know the facts before acting like I'm stupid.

i do know the facts, and you're still stupid

going from multiple title runs to not making the playoffs, to 2005's record.

Fidel Castro
04-07-2006, 08:04 AM
They would have won 40 games in 05 had kirelinko actually played. This year theyve got 35 wins with 8 games left even though they wasted all their money on Boozer instead of mutiple players who can actually play. First of all, multiple title runs was 10 years ago, not anytime recent. The fact is they dropped off by like 3 wins after stockton and malone left.Anyways, I havent stated anywhere that Stockton wasnt good, I'm just saying he wasn't the best point guard to ever play. He only made the all nba team 2 years for god sakes. If he was as great as you think he would have made it every year in the 90s, but it didnt happen.

Fidel Castro
04-07-2006, 08:33 AM
Point guards I'd take over stockton: Dennis Johnson, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Bob Cousy, Magic Johnson, Nate Archibald, Walt Frazier, Dave Bing, Oscar Robertson.

Verthanthi
04-07-2006, 02:06 PM
Duh, sarcasm.

hyperbole.

gran guerrero
04-07-2006, 02:49 PM
i like how u didnt add steve nash to ur list when he won mvp, totally revamped the phenoix suns game last year and is the heart and soul of the phenoixs team and without him they would be garbage.

but still, stockton was one of the best and if you deny him that label then you can go on and post something contradicting what i said because i know stockton is having fun knowing hes a future hall of famer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stockton

Facts
* Stockton played 1,504 of 1,526 possible games in his 19-season career.
* He holds the NBA record for career assists with 15,806, and for assists per game over one season (14.5 in 1990).
* He holds the NBA record for career steals with 3,265, nearly 20 percent more than the runner-up, Michael Jordan, who had 2,514. [1] Moreover, he is one of three players who have logged more than 1,000 assists in one season, including Kevin Porter (1,099 in 1979) and Isiah Thomas (1,123 in 1985). Stockton did this seven times, with season totals of 1164, 1134, 1128, 1126, 1118, 1031 and 1011 assists. Magic Johnson, another great point guard, topped out at 989. [2]
* Stockton never missed the playoffs.
* Stockton has one career triple double, which came on a playoff game against the Dallas Mavericks.

Stockton was known for his unassuming, no-nonsense approach to the game, hard-nosed defense, and fanatical work-ethic in preparation. The legendary coach John Wooden said that John Stockton was the only player in the NBA that he would pay to watch. Stockton avoided endorsements, and stayed loyal to Utah despite being offered significantly more money by other teams. He took a pay-cut to make salary-cap space so the team could improve; taking ice time for his son's hockey team instead.

Hungery
04-07-2006, 03:01 PM
Randy Moss for the best basketball player

Kid Kaos
04-08-2006, 11:31 PM
Nobody ever said that Stockton was not a good player/not worthy of the Hall.
That would be rediculous. All im saying, is I can name atleast 6 PG's that I would play over him. It all depends on what you want out of your point. Ive always rpefered the shooting point guard, they are a taller breed of PG wich allows for more scoring opportunities. A smaller PG is normally a great ball handler who can pass the ball better then he can shoot. IE (John Stockton)

Ide take Magics scoring ability over Stocktons ball control abilities.

intersect
04-09-2006, 05:49 PM
i think Stockton was a good player. I also think Jordan/ Wilt Chamberlain led their teams far. JJ Redick is going to be the legend :P