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View Full Version : BWC Round 1 - West USA vs. ROTW & other changes.



FALK5^Wing^
05-25-2008, 06:01 PM
To all that was present, or may have heard about the West USA vs. ROTW match for this week's Round 1 BWC match at 5:00 pm EST, there may have been some confusion as to who won the game, and how everything is going to happen based on inappropriate rosters and adding players not on rosters.

Directly following this match, a bunch of BWC Supervisors, those involved in the game, the BWC-Ops that were present and some other trusted members of staff got together to discuss these events and here are the results to this meeting.

Those who were present included: Falk, Left_eye, Aquatiq, Cool Koen, Galleleo <ER>, H.M.S. Stargazer, Mirrorrim and Dald <ER>.

Although you may realize dald <ER> and mirrorrim were playing in the matches, when it came time to make the decisions, they were not present, but they were there to voice their opinions.

With that being said, here are some of the changes:

1) Rosters will be locked. There will be no more registrations and signups to any of the teams. The BWC website will not allow signups to teams anymore.

2) Rosters will be checked to re-assign players to their appropriate teams based on their IP addresses, that is where you play from, not where you want to play from. There will be no-exceptions to this.

3) After rosters have been checked, games will be checked to see if any players not in the appropriate rosters have played as a part of their team. If that has happened, the game will be replayed. Games with legitimate players playing from their region will not be replayed.

---This means that West USA vs. ROTW will be replayed---

4) Vatican assassin will be revoked captain status for future BWC rounds. MirrorriM will be re-assigned as a temporary assistant captain for the team until a new captain is found for the West USA team.

We are sorry for any confusions, and any disruptions to the rosters. However, we are trying to keep BWC legitimate in terms of it being a tournament involving people playing from the correct parts of the world. We hope these changes are suitable.

Edit: Based on BWC Rules, it should be mentioned that all replayed matches will use the same ships played in the match that is being replayed. The line-up will be different, however, due to the nature of these replays.

Mantra-Slider
05-25-2008, 07:03 PM
2) Rosters will be checked to re-assign players to their appropriate teams based on their IP addresses, that is where you play from, not where you want to play from. There will be no-exceptions to this.



so if I go study abroad for a year I will be forced to play for the country I currently live in and not that "country" I was born and raised and share culture with?
When Sweden was a team on their on we played with a couple of players who was studying in Canada and USA at the time and there was no one complaining about it.

you know that even in sports if you have a double citizenship its up to the players to decide where they want to play. Stop bashing on "rotw" only cos it used to be the laughing stock of the tournament and now when its a force to reckon with you are all afraid and want to apply restrictions.

gay :down:

edit:
fr Sverige, den kra fosterjorden
Fratelli d'Italia, L'Italia s' desta!!!
Ptria amada, Idolatrada, Salve! Salve!!
Levantai hoje de novo O esplendor de Portugal!
Slavsya, strana! My gordimsya toboy!
Mozhe drn de pohuǒ, Qinjn! Qinjn! Qinjn! Jn!

eelam <tw>
05-25-2008, 07:58 PM
btw ima go play with CanadaA

H.M.S. Stargazer
05-25-2008, 08:01 PM
so if I go study abroad for a year I will be forced to play for the country I currently live in and not that "country" I was born and raised and share culture with?
When Sweden was a team on their on we played with a couple of players who was studying in Canada and USA at the time and there was no one complaining about it.

you know that even in sports if you have a double citizenship its up to the players to decide where they want to play. Stop bashing on "rotw" only cos it used to be the laughing stock of the tournament and now when its a force to reckon with you are all afraid and want to apply restrictions.

gay :down:

edit:
fr Sverige, den kra fosterjorden
Fratelli d'Italia, L'Italia s' desta!!!
Ptria amada, Idolatrada, Salve! Salve!!
Levantai hoje de novo O esplendor de Portugal!
Slavsya, strana! My gordimsya toboy!
Mozhe drn de pohuǒ, Qinjn! Qinjn! Qinjn! Jn!

Ah yes, but who will move to another part of the country to play for the ENTIRE BWC.

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=33499
... location of player is important.. This is a different BWC and rules are different.

For those who don't know, Basing World Cup is a SSCU Trench Wars Basing Cup. Teams are limited based on geographical positioning in the world.

^ It can be interpreted many ways. But Being on a team is based on geographical location.. ie) where you live. Not where you are born.

Peace_Maker
05-25-2008, 10:35 PM
Question: where are you going to draw the line between East and West US? lol

Edit: Nvm its in the rules

Jeenyuss
05-25-2008, 10:45 PM
earlier i was kind of on the fence on this topic but i think i've finally came to the conclusion that it's bullshit. as long as there's legitimacy behind the player's decision to play for a country then i think that should be reason enough. i've already brought up the fact that pauloakenfold played for u.k. while living in the states for many past bwc's. in fact i looked through the rules and i don't think i found anything in them stating that you have to be in the country to play for them. whatever, even though rotw is a pretty big deal with sal et al i figure they'll be able to make a strong impact regardless.

what i don't understand is why everyone is trying to make it a level playing field for all yet they don't even address the fact that east usa not only has like twice the amount of players than any other team but a LOT of skill. you guys should've split them up with canada and tried to incorporate something else in there.

Necromotic
05-25-2008, 10:51 PM
cap me up

dads revenge
05-25-2008, 10:57 PM
born and raised in east USA moved to south USA then to west USA now I live on the border. HMMMMmmmm EUREKA!!!!

VIVA LA CANADA C TEAM

Stayon
05-26-2008, 05:54 AM
i really dont mind replaying this, its just gonna be another blowout, but concerning the real issue, read what mantra and jeen said, not only you split up a good canada team and didnt slip the most stacked bwc team ever, east usa, your trying to fuck with the newbies of this tournament since it was created..and the most comic thing about this is that you really need to look on the others rosters.

and def. if was for example finnish and lived in the us i would boycott this until i could play for my own country. and im still here trying to defend a tag that in nothing resembles to my own fucking country.

MetalHeadz
05-26-2008, 08:04 AM
I hate this IP thing, I play league matches at many different destinations with differing IPs.

Mantra-Slider
05-27-2008, 05:34 AM
Ah yes, but who will move to another part of the country to play for the ENTIRE BWC.




what do you mean?





http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=33499
... location of player is important.. This is a different BWC and rules are different.

For those who don't know, Basing World Cup is a SSCU Trench Wars Basing Cup. Teams are limited based on geographical positioning in the world.

^ It can be interpreted many ways. But Being on a team is based on geographical location.. ie) where you live. Not where you are born.

but this is so silly that its become bizarre, you dodge my question with some generalizing rule that lacks both knowledge and understanding of human conditions. I cant believe you are actually forcing people not to play for their country only because they happend to live somewhere else at the current time. cant you seriously see how fucked up it is? You are acting more strict than any random communist/fascist regime and and I cant see any reason for doing so other than you being completley insensitive and actually wanting to hurt people, or to fuck up the rotw roster cos you already managed to do that with the american and canadian roster.

Let the players decide where they feel they belong to and what flag they represent, just as in real life, not some authority on a spaceship game.

Zeebu
05-27-2008, 09:27 AM
you should play for the country you are from. if you are going to school somewhere else, play for the country youre actually from if you like. that makes perfect sense. if youve lived in a certain area for 90% of your life and recently moved, play for where youre originally from, that makes good sense too. if you are from and still live in arkansas yet feel a certain affinity with finnish people, move to finland. i thought the point of bwc was to see what country/region could field the best basing team.

what is the point in playing at all if that isnt the way of things? excuse me for being dense i guess, i didnt play the other bwc's. i just have a hard time making sense out of it.

we have squads and twl so we can play with friends. whats the difference between twl and this if you can play for any team you want? (except for the gameplay rules of course)

Doc Flabby
05-27-2008, 10:19 AM
Let the players decide where they feel they belong to and what flag they represent, just as in real life
Except in real life they can't, unless that nation chooses to give them citizenship.

Personally I disagree with the IP rule. (In TWD as well but thats another arguement) Firstly alot of IP do not necessarily have the location you expect. Where I work has a USA IP but im working in the UK.

We've already allowed people to not play for UK & Ireland even though they live and were born there, so I don't see why another roster should get special treatment. To be consistant I think we should leave rosters as they are. This kinda thing should have been made clear before it started, it it was to be introduced.

What should have happened in that game is the Rosters should have been double checked. I would suggest that a rule be added that a game is automatically lost if fielding ineligiable (not on roster) players.

PH
05-27-2008, 10:34 AM
This kinda thing should have been made clear before it started, it it was to be introduced.you're asking for clarity in an event that's being organized and run by two slapdicks, one of whom's english i would barely classify as rudimentary. good luck, you'll need it.

MBananas
05-27-2008, 11:51 AM
People may not see clarity in my words PH, but certainly they find legitimation and some rightful meanings in all my actions...however, we can't say the same of a guy whom you can't trust and or you can't expect a bit of justness in his words, opposing and demoralizing everything new or any effort to make this game more interesting. I'm not a native english speaker, but I guarantee I can school you in any other language mainly because ideas just come from your mind and not from your mouth...

Mantra-Slider
05-27-2008, 11:53 AM
Except in real life they can't, unless that nation chooses to give them citizenship.



what I mean is that if you have a double citizenship irl (say you were born in china and moved to usa when you were 3, as it happends to be with one of our players I believe) its not until you play your first international game its decided who you have to play for the rest of your life, and that is up to the individual to decide on her own. This is clearly marked in the bwc rules, it says that if you have played for another bwc team before you cant change your team now.

my point is that you cant have a set rule in situations like this, it has to be judged case by case. I think everyone knows everyone (or at least any good player who would have a big impact on the roster) good enough to know if its actually legit for the player to play for that country or not.

PH
05-27-2008, 12:57 PM
People may not see clarity in my words PH, but certainly they find legitimation and some rightful meanings in all my actions...however, we can't say the same of a guy whom you can't trust and or you can't expect a bit of justness in his words, opposing and demoralizing everything new or any effort to make this game more interesting. I'm not a native english speaker, but I guarantee I can school you in any other language mainly because ideas just come from your mind and not from your mouth...that's great. when some other language replaces english as the dominant language in this game, feel free to "school" me. until then, keep doing what you're doing because frankly you make a very good laughingstock.

Pressure Drop
05-27-2008, 07:57 PM
this is retarded ...

the inconsistency is beyond belief

why are you being so strict about geographic location ?

i mean
1) you split up canada via draft picks, not west or east or geographic means just players picking other canadians.

2) you managed to split up USA in such an amazing way that it has a super block team in east USA that could field 2 or 3 good teams and West USA can't field shit

why wasn't that a draft so you get 2 really competitive USA squads instead of one huge one and a piece of crap?

3) you then have a hissy fit over some players playing for where they were born not where they live.

That is standard in international competitions as mantra says in international football in the case of duel nationality you choose then are locked into that team ...

i've personally only ever played for RotW in the past, though i didn't even get picked this year which was a kick in the teeth -_-

4) personally if you start dicking about with the rosters and want to move me to uk & ireland just remove me out of the whole thing.

i'm past caring about this tournament if that is the case

Mantra-Slider
05-28-2008, 03:41 AM
funny thing is that according to the bwc rules you have to play for rotw pressure cos thats who you have played for before. But now Falk comes in with another rule that totally contradicts that rule and force people to play wherever you live. So right now you have 2 rules saying completley different things in the same rules section :)

this whole ip reasoning is beyond my understanding but what worries me even more is that there is no one explaining or answering our questions/critic. Only stargazer with some useless reply ( :) ) of "it is like this cos its in the rules and rules can be understood differently"

Galleleo
05-28-2008, 03:54 PM
Purely talking about this particular game. I checked the rosters before both teams started and both rosters where fine. In other words, everyone in the game was on either of the 2 rosters.

Now I ended the game, because Vati started adding people not on their roster (like me), and that was just retarded. Vati should have played out the game and made an appeal about it afterwards.

As far as playing for what country, I do not make these decisions, I simply go by roster. My personal opinion is that people should be allowed to play for the country they wanna play granted that they have valid reasons (for instance, pd).

midoent
05-29-2008, 12:33 PM
Since I am not about to send a scan of my passport to you I guess im being kicked off rotw.

lol would I still be able to play for Canada? :P

Mantra-Slider
05-30-2008, 03:41 AM
really, no comments at all ops?

Stayon
05-30-2008, 08:28 AM
its not to wonder they wont comment..there really isnt much they can say besides the usual "its how we want, because we cant be flexible at all and we like to enforce power."

Jeenyuss
05-30-2008, 10:38 AM
i understand that they already gave their position for rotw but i hate how they never comment on the fact that they have dismantled so many teams yet left east u.s.a. standing strong.

MBananas
05-30-2008, 01:29 PM
Jeen, answer bueno's question first! :grin:

ok, being serious...I can't contradict my beliefs, and that may explain why I'm not here justifying our decisions...in other hand, I just can't stand up for my personal point of view here if it is not in coformity with staff decision...

That's all, see you on sunday :fear:

Jeenyuss
05-30-2008, 06:25 PM
i'm not sure how you could actually make me wish that staff would've just stayed silent instead of replying with that bullshit. that was so useless. essentially you're telling us you can't voice your opinion on any subject because it doesn't fall in line with upper staff dipshits. that's the kind of league i want to play in for sure. even though you and dald can be absolute tits sometimes i was happy to see SOMETHING being done in trench wars and that it was being done with such enthusiasm. this is your league, mbananas. you have an opinion and voice it. i still want to hear why the bwc admins are trying their hardest to make this a cake walk for 89 and his gang of fuck holes (yes you, tsu).

MBananas
05-30-2008, 07:41 PM
<_<

MBananas
05-30-2008, 07:48 PM
Jeen, it wasn't my decision in the first place. I wasn't at the meeting that decided this and I reallyi don't want to be unprofessional and go against my fellow staffers, however, I've alerted everyone who WAS at the meeting about this thread and hopefully one of them will respond. To your questions and concerns, I feel sorry coz I can't be anymore helpful...but I've tried.
In addiction, I confess I'm really disappointed for giving my real life time to make this bwc good and likely a fixed event in tw, nevertheless, everything falls down over my shoulders as I've been paid for this...I dont know how far my passion for this game goes, but definetely I hope it doesnt get bursted by all these disillusions...

Mantra-Slider
06-01-2008, 05:40 AM
this is retarded. fucking answer our questions or abandon the league.

Tsumetai
06-01-2008, 06:20 AM
i'm not sure how you could actually make me wish that staff would've just stayed silent instead of replying with that bullshit. that was so useless. essentially you're telling us you can't voice your opinion on any subject because it doesn't fall in line with upper staff dipshits. that's the kind of league i want to play in for sure. even though you and dald can be absolute tits sometimes i was happy to see SOMETHING being done in trench wars and that it was being done with such enthusiasm. this is your league, mbananas. you have an opinion and voice it. i still want to hear why the bwc admins are trying their hardest to make this a cake walk for 89 and his gang of fuck holes (yes you, tsu).

Wait, since when was I demoted to fuck hole? I thought I was still a goat fucker.

Pressure Drop
06-03-2008, 07:04 AM
this is retarded. fucking answer our questions or abandon the league.

Don't worry Mantra

i'm sure given this 1 week extension the FAIR and REASONABLE staff that have so RIGHTEOUSLY graced our forums with a statement telling us what is in BWC best interests due to their ULTRA SECRET STAFF ONLY discussions cause only STAFF know what's what, will clarify things like answering the little people's questions.

Though in all fairness what explanations do we deserve?

Hell aren't we lucky staff just didn't hand West USA the victory despite RotW only adding people on it's roster and breaking no rules, then banning the 1-2% these changes actually affect from ever playing TW again


THANK YOU MERCIFUL STAFF

I know when youre a little person like me you can't comprehend the all knowing , all mighty and infallible staff

So there are some things I don't understand

I don't understand why this is a new BWC NEW RULES !!!! AFTER THE FIRST GAME has been played

To then make a replay of a match where one team only played people on it's roster BEFORE THE NEW INTERPRETATION of the rules . . . So these rule changes are also retrospective ?

I don't understand the extremely fascist NO EXCEPTIONS to this new IP rule when no international games be it the olympics FIFA etc, which the entire purpose of the BWC tries to replicate, follows such draconian rules.

- or any interpretation of BWC rules as such ONLY WHERE YOU ARE CURRENTLY LIVING !

Why this is in the interest of game balance or some crap and yet East USA vs West USA is still scandalously stacked NEW BWC NU WAI TO DIVIDE THAT UP TO FIX IT - might have been a better use of your crazed staff authority complex ?

Mantra-Slider
06-03-2008, 07:49 AM
Falk, Left_eye, Aquatiq, Cool Koen, Galleleo <ER>, H.M.S. Stargazer, Mirrorrim and Dald <ER> - you are all awesome. :up:

note: yes I was being sarcastic, I think you have all shown horrible judgment by adding this rule, but thats not even my main concern anymore. the thing that bothers me more than anything else right now is your unwillingness to explain, commment and simply take part in this discussion. what happend to you guys? you are all acting like ignorant fucks.

Doc Flabby
06-03-2008, 09:15 AM
Prehaps this post will help people to understand the situation a little better.



Although you may realize dald <ER> and mirrorrim were playing in the matches, when it came time to make the decisions, they were not present, but they were there to voice their opinions.


Falk, Left_eye, Aquatiq, Cool Koen, Galleleo <ER>, H.M.S. Stargazer, Mirrorrim and Dald <ER> - you are all awesome. :up:


Which means none of the BWC Coordinators, ie the people "running" this league were directly involved in the decision. I would like to make it clear as one of the 3 BWC Coordinators I have had no involvement in this decision, or any of the decision making process that resulted in this statement so far.

Personally I would have like the oppertunity for the 3 Coordinators to make a decision together. Or as dald <er>, played in a game, myself and MBananas <er> should have been able to make that decision.

If other staff want to run the league they are welcome to, but I think its unfair the people who worked hard to make it happen take the flak for their decisions.




My interpretation of the situation
----------------------------------
ROTW players fielded were legal according to rules.


V. Roster Rules and Requirements

5.01
There is no limit of eligible players (We cannot prohibit people to play for their homeland).

5.02
However, in order to be eligible for Basing World Cup game play, each player must be:
a) Registered at BWC Registering Thread on TW Forums
b) Not be a member of any other BWC team (See Rule III)
c) Not currently serving a suspension from BWC game play.

5.03
BWC Captains are responsible for their roster. This includes their players being eligible for the games



Purely talking about this particular game. I checked the rosters before both teams started and both rosters where fine. In other words, everyone in the game was on either of the 2 rosters.

Now I ended the game, because Vati started adding people not on their roster (like me), and that was just retarded. Vati should have played out the game and made an appeal about it afterwards.

Under the rules, as theys stood before the changes Vati forfieted the game by fielding ineligable players. Personally thats how I think the result should be. If the rosters are locked before the start of the competion, Complaints about rosters should have been made BEFORE the games started. Once the competition has started its too late to complain imo. However in the wake of the statement that has been made already the game will HAVE to be replayed now.

Mantra-Slider
06-03-2008, 03:17 PM
so what you are saying is that you guys have no control of your own league whatsoever and the guys that are actually in charge of the league have no wish to communicate with the players and are rarely seen in the game.
I have been trying to talk with ANYONE regarding this situation the few times Ive been online but since Ive never been able to find anyone of them online (some of them are last seen a week ago) I have asked staff to help me out and been told to "leave them a message" and when I have done this I have never even been respected enough to get a reply back.

Is this really acceptable and what you would call great staffing or great league running?

please note that the final question was rhetorical and dont need to be answered as I think I have a good opinion on my own of how both a staffer and a league op should work.

Galleleo
06-03-2008, 04:55 PM
wow, wow, wow. Back off of me please.

I was at that meeting because I was hosting, I have clearly stated my opinion in this thread: That ROTW fielded 8 players that were on the roster and a ok to play and that West USA forfeited because vati added people not on their roster. In my opinion rosters should have been checked before BWC started with people not playing in their area if that is what the BWC Ops/Supervisors have decided that everyone needs to play for the area they are living in. Would West USA wanted to have appealed to the game after it finished, that would have been fine with me. But lets be clear that I do notT make the rules in this thing, nor did I make that rule. Hell, during the meeting I mentioned Pressures case multiple times and why I think he is playing for the right team (rotw) given his explanation.

I have answered all the calls during that game about Mikes/others in the same way: they are on the roster and thus eligible to play. I have not been communicating about this, because it is not my place to. It is something for either the ops or the supervisors.

And no, I did not make or support that rule.

Jeenyuss
06-03-2008, 05:31 PM
stand-up job, higher-ups.

MirrorriM
06-03-2008, 08:57 PM
I didnt make the decision but I can offer you my argument:

1) I have brought up in another thread asking why East USA is allowed to be incredibly stacked and why Canada was split up but not East USA.

2)I asked why players like mikes were added before the game started, but nothing happened. We could not have checked the roster before the game because players like mikes were added the very same day, after the registration deadline, without our knowledge.

3) I feel players should play for the country they've lived in most of their life. Like someone else said, it wouldnt be BWC if people wanted to play wherever they felt like it. I can see why people feel otherwise, but this is my opinion.

4)I dont blame Gall because he was just following the rules and indeed, the players were on the roster.

5) I argued against moving PD because he has played on rotw before and he had a specific explanation for wanting to play on it. He didnt just drop in like some of the players whom we all know havent lived the majority of their lives in the country they claimed on BWC. If they had given a nice case like PD, perhaps I'd reconsider. I am for case-by-case situations. At the time of the game West US didnt know they lived for the first year of their life somewhere else. We just knew where they lived at the present--where they have lived a long time and where they have associated themselves in conversations, forums, etc. This is why we brought it up.

6) West US will get beaten. Badly, horribly, devastatingly, but at least we will lose to rotw and not rotw + friends.

Pressure Drop
06-05-2008, 10:18 AM
As thinly veiled as my tirade against the staff decision was, mine was not aimed at all staff there.

I don't know how such decisions are made over the heads of the ones who put in the time and effort into resurrecting BWC, I also highly doubt if it had been Zeus and Rab doing the league again that they would have been brushed aside and given no input into decisions directly affecting their tournament which seems to be the case.

Also if this ill thought out decision to replay retrospectively after changing rules affected a team like benelux in it's hay day or east usa or was in TWL affecting a major team I think there would have been more of an uproar at how badly this was handled.

Indeed the staff that have actually had the decency to post in this thread have widely distanced themselves from it, making it even more peculiar that this was pushed ahead and posted here with the little explanation given you would have to assume that the names on that list where widely in agreement otherwise why name names ? Was this a majority decision, a minority or cherry picking given that a decision was made without consultation to Doc Flabby, Mbannas and it doesn't appear Dald had a say in the out come either ?

Why was this such an important decision that an immediate rushed through mess came about without waiting a few days to consult the ones who put the league together ...

Jeenyuss
06-05-2008, 05:00 PM
i just like how it's all the staffers who weren't involved in the decision making process that are responding.

Stayon
06-05-2008, 09:08 PM
pressure i think the word your looking for is abuse of power

Daldur
06-06-2008, 12:13 AM
Regarding the decision for the replay,

A bunch of us got together after the match to decide on the outcome of the game, including myself and a few BWC supervisors and other SMods, MBananas was not present however. It was discussed in a great depth of detail to a point where we believed the outcome that eventuated was the correct decision.

Having said that, MBananas and myself both play for ROTW and I didn't want to voice an opinion which seemed bias towards my team. However, looking from a West USA point of view, Mikes didn't actually live in a country that was situated in a geogrpahical location appropriate for ROTW. Therefore, Vatican Assassin only added illegal players because he thought ROTW was doing something illegal themselves. Even though Mikes was only one player and the 16 eligable substituties in spectator !myfreq'd each could have taken his place and not changed the outcome of the game in a greta deal.

Nevertheless, ROTW will reign champion over West USA, no matter what line is in :P GO ROTW!

Galleleo
06-06-2008, 09:20 AM
Dald, before vati even started doing that subbing, I had told him and others multiple times that Mikes was on the roster and thus eligible.

Pressure Drop
06-06-2008, 10:39 AM
Wow dald just wow

Not only has it taken you an age to make clear your position in this thread , you haven't addressed any of the other issues just the replay

Not only that, saying that you and a bunch of staff had a discussion and decided on a replay really doesn't give me a lot of faith in the staff involved in that discussion . . .

What sort of retard logic is it that a team doesn't agree that someone should be on the other teams roster, so when they are loosing they make a mockery of the game by adding in people from spec who are in other BWC rosters so the game is abandoned and then that team is granted a replay whatever happened to a genuine appeal and going through the correct channels ?

So wait when the other team accuses you of lagcheating in jav, it's ok for them to induce lag to cheat to get a replay ?

Vat also complained about Sal being on the roster, yet he was an assistant on the same team you were on - why weren't these questions raised earlier ? Or rosters checked to see if anyone of the captains had issues before the tournament had started . . .

Why is this now a tournament only where your IP address says your from when that isn't in the spirit of international competition...

Why no exceptions?

This is meant to be an international competition . . . OFFICIAL sports that have a lot higher profile than BWC would never enforce the rules you are enforcing as it violates common sense and decency . . .

I mean look at FIFA e.g. Owen Hargreaves. He was born and grew up in Canada till he was 16, then he moved to Germany to play Football. His parents where originally from the UK. Under FIFA rules he could have played for Canada or England and if he didn't play for either of them under German residency laws if he stayed in Germany much longer he would have gained citizenship and could play for them. It was up to him to decide and once he made his decision for senior level international football your locked into it and cannot change which nation you represent. He chose to represent England despite never living there and Germany being the most consistent footballing nation out of the 3. If you've seen him play for england he is very committed to the cause. Because his parents grew up there and he has family there and visited them he felt a strong connection to it. FIFA wouldn't go NO YOU ARE LIVING IN GERMANY, YOU PLAY FOOTBALL THERE, SO YOU MUST PLAY FOR GERMANY . . . They let him decide


There is a lot greater issues about this league than making rule changes here . . . Instead off worrying about 2-3 % of the roster playing for a different team than there location you could have been addressing how WEST USA can only turn out a poor team in recent years whilst EAST USA is too big

Perhaps that would have made a greater impact on the competition than removing a few people off RotW roster

_________________________________________

On a peronal note, I don't really agree with the people who have moved into RotW roster when in previous years they have played for other teams becuase for myself I go along with the FIFA sort of thinking that if you've dual nationality once you've picked a team you have to stand by your decision. I don't get why I'm not allowed to represent RotW since they are the only team I've ever played for because under previous BWC it encapsulated Ireland - wheras now an island with aprox 6 million people becomes the only addition / removal in the whole of the BWC over 6 billion people - seems stupid . . . Why was this changed ?

Pressure Drop
06-06-2008, 10:40 AM
edit // ewww why did i quote it to spam up the forums >< ?


yes it was a slow friday in work :s

Kolar
06-07-2008, 01:42 AM
My interpretation of the situation
----------------------------------
ROTW players fielded were legal according to rules.

Under the rules, as theys stood before the changes Vati forfieted the game by fielding ineligable players. Personally thats how I think the result should be. If the rosters are locked before the start of the competion, Complaints about rosters should have been made BEFORE the games started. Once the competition has started its too late to complain imo. However in the wake of the statement that has been made already the game will HAVE to be replayed now.

And that would be correct. If Mantra wanted to play for ROTW that was his choice, the rules clearly allow for it.

Then Vati started to add players not eligible, the key issue here does that automatically forfeit their team from the game? If no rule exists to cover that eventuality then I believe the game should be replayed as it's already a fucking mess, Vati disbarred from Captain of West-USA, no IP checks and Mantra can do what he wants.

Changing the rules mid-season with little to no consultation of those in-charge of the league in an attempt to make specific, selective change in the way the league will play out was completely out of line. Leagues like this live and die by their rules, once you set them aside in guiding your decisions you can justify anything.

Galleleo
06-07-2008, 10:13 AM
If Mantra wanted to play for ROTW that was his choice, the rules clearly allow for it.


Pressure, Mantra is ROTW because Sweden has no team.

Cops
06-07-2008, 04:22 PM
point race + forcing people to play for teams and countries they don't want to play for, wow can this league get any more crappier.



Then Vati started to add players not eligible, the key issue here does that automatically forfeit their team from the game? If no rule exists to cover that eventuality then I believe the game should be replayed as it's already a fucking mess, Vati disbarred from Captain of West-USA, no IP checks and Mantra can do what he wants.


agreed, sack him as captain for doing this and let mantra and pressure play on whatever team they want to play on.

Mantra-Slider
06-08-2008, 05:24 AM
I want to add here that Im not really talking about myself in this thread as I, as galleleo mentioned, are very much allowed to play for rotw both before and after this rulechange :) Im only trying to point out how bizarre and fucked up the rule is but it seems like every staffer who has posted in this thread and was present at the meeting is either saying they dont want the rule or that they didnt really have anything to do with the decision.
From what I understand this means that Falk, Left_eye, Aquatiq and Cool Koen ruined this tournament. I want to say thanks to them.

Cops
06-08-2008, 12:31 PM
I think it was more Falk and Left_Eye than anything. Regardless, I agree the league has gotten worse. I think there was enough guys here who have been playing BWC since 2002/2003 who've openly said it needs to be time race. I also think it goes against the very nature of the tournament to force people to play on countries they have no affiliation with.

Hopefully when they run this league in the future it's run better.


Regarding the decision for the replay,

A bunch of us got together after the match to decide on the outcome of the game, including myself and a few BWC supervisors and other SMods, MBananas was not present however. It was discussed in a great depth of detail to a point where we believed the outcome that eventuated was the correct decision.

Having said that, MBananas and myself both play for ROTW and I didn't want to voice an opinion which seemed bias towards my team. However, looking from a West USA point of view, Mikes didn't actually live in a country that was situated in a geogrpahical location appropriate for ROTW. Therefore, Vatican Assassin only added illegal players because he thought ROTW was doing something illegal themselves. Even though Mikes was only one player and the 16 eligable substituties in spectator !myfreq'd each could have taken his place and not changed the outcome of the game in a greta deal.


Regardless of the fact that Vatican Assassin thought ROTW did something illegal, does not in anyway give Vatican Assassin an excuse to cheat, game forfeited and possibly replaced with a better more competent captain.

Galleleo
06-08-2008, 02:03 PM
There were more votes for point race than time race, stop whining about it. There is also enough people playing since 2002/2003 who say it should be point race, moot argument.

Cops
06-08-2008, 03:02 PM
There were more votes for point race than time race, stop whining about it. There is also enough people playing since 2002/2003 who say it should be point race, moot argument.

judging from MHZ thread most people didn't agree with it, but the league will push on regardless of how bad it is. I think the main issue now is forcing people onto teams they don't want to play for, I mean these rules are said but not even enforced (mikes played for rotw today).

Mantra-Slider
06-08-2008, 03:18 PM
before the games today the league ops said they were not gonna go with this rulechange tho cops. Would have saved me alot of effort and "spamming" if this would have been taken care of sooner hehe.

Been some confusing weeks for me, trying to get in touch with everyone to talk about all this but pretty much being treated like crap by former staffriends who are now in a higher position than they were at the time I was in staff with them and yeah lets just say that things have changed it seems.

edit: all in all the league has been messy due to all this but it seems like flabby is trying to sort it out but It might be too late Im afraid.

Doc Flabby
06-08-2008, 03:58 PM
Well basically it was impossible to implement the rule, as no one has done the "IP checks". So we have decided to ignore it. To prevent further issues this rule change will be ignored for the remainder of the competition.

Whether is appears next BWC remains to be seen.



TO CLEAR THIS UP. ROSTERS ARE REMAINING UNCHANGED.

IF PLAYER IS ON ROSTER, THEY ARE ELIGIBLE TO PLAY.

FINAL WORD

Jeenyuss
06-08-2008, 05:11 PM
sounds good, just wish you would've articulated this a bit more clearly before the match started because the game would've been closer if sal and midoent were there as well.

PH
06-08-2008, 05:18 PM
next BWChttp://i29.tinypic.com/2hr0dfm.gif

Cops
06-08-2008, 06:07 PM
I don't wish to totally recant my statements but the game today was kind of fun, I know it's not time race but it's not terrible. I still think the games are easy to call 10 minutes before they're over though. I guess the league will push on, and hopefully the next BWC will not force people to play for countries they have no affiliation with.

Cops out.

TagMor
06-09-2008, 07:14 PM
The scheduled time is fkd. Why is it set at the most convenient time for the u.s of 5pm EST when it is the early hours of the morning for alot of rotw countries.....???
It is 3am for some of us and i'll be fukd if ima get up at that time to play a game of base... If it was say 9pm EST then it would still be very reasonable for the fat americans and would be 7am for myself along with my countrymen such as Dald, A.j, Irrupt etc... A much more balanced time and ultimately a fairer competition.

Summa
06-09-2008, 09:16 PM
zeus was smart, a very competent staffer, and an all around great guy. that brought us a fun competitive tournament

this tournament's spearheaders: apparently not very competent and definitely not organized. what does that bring us? oh yes a POS tournament, wonder if anyone can form a corollary from this?

Doc Flabby
06-10-2008, 08:04 AM
zeus was smart, a very competent staffer, and an all around great guy. that brought us a fun competitive tournament

if he had offered to come back and run it, we wouldn't have said no :wub:
We have tried our best.

Cops
06-10-2008, 09:46 AM
if he had offered to come back and run it, we wouldn't have said no :wub:
We have tried our best.

It is a learning experience, hopefully changes to next years make it better than this one. I'm impressed with the setup of the games, the structure is kind of cool.

H.M.S. Stargazer
06-10-2008, 11:07 PM
I am neither a BWC op nor advisor. But here is my two cents as a 'vet' staffer.

It has been brought up before that IRL international competitions allow for citizenship. This is true, and If we as a staff were able to verify this im sure we would to. But this is a 2-d game where girls are boys, and you can be anyone you want to be. Currently the only way to verify citizenship or location is through IP checks unless you all want to start sending in your birth certificates to some stranger over the net.

And when many of the people signed up on the forums..

Introduction
For those who don't know, Basing World Cup is a SSCU Trench Wars Basing Cup. Teams are limited based on geographical positioning in the world. Certain regions in the world may be divided or combined together in order to balance the population, experience and competitiveness of the Cup

Its based on geographic positioning(Where you are living, not Where you are born or where your parents were born)

So really anyone who signed up then agreed to that rule. and it was not moved over to the official site rules. It should have been and wasn't. So what now? I feel the BWC advisors made the correct choice.

Mantra-Slider
06-11-2008, 05:16 AM
Do you really expect people to continue read after you present yourself as a vet staffer? :)

RednaZ
06-11-2008, 08:53 AM
I for one did not

H.M.S. Stargazer
06-11-2008, 09:25 AM
Do you really expect people to continue read after you present yourself as a vet staffer? :)

lol i said 'vet' staffer. <---- notice the quotations.

Kolar
06-11-2008, 09:32 AM
Its based on geographic positioning(Where you are living, not Where you are born or where your parents were born)

So really anyone who signed up then agreed to that rule. and it was not moved over to the official site rules. It should have been and wasn't. So what now? I feel the BWC advisors made the correct choice.

The Basing World Cup rules were posted on the forum, the thread was deleted when the site became available. The forum and site rules are the same, they clearly state:

V. Roster Rules and Requirements

5.01
There is no limit of eligible players (We cannot prohibit people to play for their homeland).

5.02
However, in order to be eligible for Basing World Cup game play, each player must be:
a) Registered at BWC Registering Thread on TW Forums
b) Not be a member of any other BWC team (See Rule III)
c) Not currently serving a suspension from BWC game play.

5.03
BWC Captains are responsible for their roster. This includes their players being eligible for the games

Those present at this "meeting" shouldn't have taken it upon themselves to interfere with the league. As Super Moderators it's our job to keep the zone running in an orderly fashion. If those who decided on this can't understand the rules of a simple league and actually show up to effect the change they decided on then they're not doing their job, because I seriously doubt anyone actually read my messages. I don't encourage staffers to be as blunt as I am but I would rather they speak their minds respectfully then give the party line.

And not everything is this zone requires immediate action and attention. This could have been left until a later date, not hours after the fact since we're not only deciding on whether a first round game should be voided but also rewriting the rules of an active league.

Edit: And I'm not saying it's proper. If I wanted to play for Benelux I'm sure I'd get some shit for it. But 'legally' (if you can call it that) within the league I could do that, but I trust that the captains will try to keep the games fair and to date I haven't seen any issues such as that.

MBananas
06-11-2008, 03:02 PM
:up:

Dabram
06-11-2008, 05:40 PM
Do you really expect people to continue read after you present yourself as a vet staffer? :)

I read it and it was a pile of shit.

Good thing when I cared about this game 'vet' staffers were actually those who were capable of continuously making decisions for the better of the game/leagues.. I don't even want to know what it takes these days to become a 'vet' staffer, probably just the will to put in some extra hours...

Oh well, I'm impressed that someone else than the morons put in charge of the organization for this league managed to screw up this very simple league by a fine display of retarded decisionmaking

/bitter

(i missed both EC games today. :()

Cops
06-11-2008, 08:55 PM
Do you really expect people to continue read after you present yourself as a vet staffer? :)

xxx

Cops
12-14-2009, 06:28 AM
should create the monarchy which would dominate all the other countries.

Jeenyuss
12-14-2009, 11:22 PM
fuck bnl

Summa
12-14-2009, 11:46 PM
oh jeen, when art thou returning? i miss you so

Cops
12-15-2009, 01:49 AM
Canada Britain Australia beat down v 3.0, monarchy coming for you better believe dat.

Cyrus
12-15-2009, 06:58 AM
a game played by sixteen players and in the end bnl wins

Jeenyuss
12-15-2009, 02:25 PM
oh jeen, when art thou returning? i miss you so

broskie i'm homeskie

and last i checked canada was the reigning champs suck it you euro faggots we had to bail you out of ww2 and now you're munching on our cup champion nuuuuuuts