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Thread: TW-General Revisited (WingZero, PLEASE Consider Implementing This)

  1. #1
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    TW-General Revisited (WingZero, PLEASE Consider Implementing This)

    WingZero, PLEASE Consider Implementing This

    I have suggested TW General for a few months right now, and I feel like not one upper staff member has even noticed. Every player who I enlighten with this idea thinks it's a great way to change this zone for the better, but nothing is done about it. This post is to rehash and thoroughly discuss the potential of the following innovation:

    Drop the individual arenas of ?go base, ?go javduel, ?go wbduel, and ?go elim, and merge them with pub to form "TW-General." Any other TWD/event related matches can be played in their own, extraneous arena. If go base, pub, wbduel, javduel, and elim were all capable of running in the same arena, roughly 80% of what is actively going on in TW will be going on in not only one arena, but the arena that all new players see as soon as they enter TW.

    Here are just some of the benefits of a General Arena:

    • Makes it easier for new players to navigate TW


    • Exposes players to all aspects of play in each ship, and each league, without ruining the integrity of pub or other events. Some may argue that having ?go base running in pub would take away from pub basing itself, but go base runs parallel to pub anyway. Not everyone wants to dedicate 20-30 minutes to a basing match. Some newbies aren't even aware of how to change arenas, do you think they're all even aware that arenas like ?go base exists?
    • Gives beginners who are brand new a chance to watch, first hand, the players they should be aspiring to be in the zone. Part of what makes TW so appealing is the skill ladder that you must climb to gain respect of your peers. ?go base, ?go elim, ?go javduel, ?go wbduel have, for the most part, lost all of their prestige. If these arenas were moved, and the games were being played in pub, 50+ players would be watching each game hourly. These would certainly incentivize players to play these games, and prove themselves.
    • Players who normally just "hang out" in wbduel/base/javduel/etc would be forced to populate TW-General if they want to continue hanging out with the crews that populate those arenas.
    • Players who wouldn't normally play javduel or base, players that would rather afk in wbduel, might find interest in playing something else just because it's running right in front of them.


    As stated, these are just SOME of the potential positives of merging all of our active competitive arenas into one. Now, some of you may be thinking this would make TW even more cluttered, more confusing, and more intimidating to new players. This is how I imagine it would work, using JavDuel as an example (yes, some of these ideas are indeed borrowed from Extreme Games):

    • BaseBot, JavDuelBot, WBDuelBot, and RoboBot would all be stationed in TW-General
    • Two players decide they want to start JavDuel.
    • Players message one of the bots !cap, and the game begins.
    • Throughout the adding period, players can designate themselves to being an eligible JavDuel player by PM'ing the JavDuelBot with !play or !p
    • The captains can see the list of eligible players by PM'ing the JavDuelBot !gameinfo or !gi (i.e. -- JavDuelBot> Available players: Ease, megaman89, Amputate, etc.)
    • A captain !add's players, and as players are added they are immediately spawned into the JavDuel base spawn arena.
    • The game begins, and the bot keeps score of each game and statistic and releases them to the public at the end of the match via blue chat and trenchwars.org, just like it normally would, but there are no automatic scoreresets. Players can choose to scorereset on their own, otherwise the kills/deaths would be added to their pub score
    • Game ends, players are free to do what they want
    • Repeat


    The same concept would carry over for the basing, warbird, and elim matches. Some of you may be wondering, "well, what about the other pub players, where will they spawn?" I have a general layout for a massively influential change in pub that I do think should be put into effect:

    • Remove levs and weasels completely. These ships have traditional ties to the core of the zone, but if you've noticed, traditional pub is long gone. As other staffers and veteran players agree, people only play these ships to be annoying, and to troll. It's time to change it up and showcase to new players the redeeming aspects of each league so they want to come back for more
    • Alongside the pub base, the elim area, the javduel area, the wbduel area, and the ?go base area, there will be a newly added warbird FREE-FOR-ALL area (similar to the spawn area that is in pub, currently), and a newly added jav FREE-FOR-ALL area (similar to the arena in ?go javs).


    Choosing a particular ship will assign you to a specific arena, following this structure:

    • Entering as a javelin will spawn you, at default, to the jav free-for-all area (FFA)
    • Entering as a warbird will spawn you, at default, to the warbird free-for-all area (FFA)
    • Entering as a spider, terrier, or shark will spawn you, at default, to the general pub base
    • Anyone who wishes to play a basing, javduel, elim, or wbduel match, can sign-up to play using the system mentioned previously


    This way, pub players will begin to associate playing as a jav with jav dueling, they will begin to associate playing as a warbird with wb dueling, and they will begin to associate playing as terr/spid/shark with basing, AS IT SHOULD BE. Sure, some players will complain that they can't be a warbird or jav in the base anymore, but there are way more positives than negatives to this change:

    • There will be no more TK'ing in base, except by sharks (which is common in a real basing game)
    • If a player becomes increasingly skillful in spider, shark or terr, he will have already primed himself for being a good player in BD. These circumstances allow for beginners to develop into potential TWD players without even knowing it.
    • Terriers will theoretically be able to to stay alive longer, as javs will no longer be TK'ing them, and warbirds/levs/cloaks/javs won't be killing them from the other team. Terrs staying alive longer will lead to longer flagroom fights, and pub matches will possess genuine characteristics of competitive basing matches. There are some elements of pub that are good for basing, but you will see much better flagroom battles and people developing their skills much faster (especially spiders/terrs) if they aren't facing warbirds/javs. It's hard enough for elite players to handle warbirds and javs in base when they themselves are in spider, which is why these ships are rarely used in TWBD's, and never at all in serious TWLB matches. So why should pubbers, the beginners, be overwhelmed by, and subject to this type of laming? Instead of spids or terrs getting easily beaten by javs/warbirds with one kill, this change will allow pubbers to see the true dynamics of basing (and jav/wb dueling) much more clearly. These ships have no real place in basing, and they should be utilized to introduce players to dueling, not a pharce version of basing.
    • Since pub basing will be significantly more similar to real basing, the elites who would rather AFK than play a full game of ?go base or TWBD might find a few minutes to hop into the pub basing match.
    • The spawn area for the pub base will be smaller, and players will spawn closer to the base so that they don't have to get "lost in space." Pubbers will have easier access to the action, and won't get confused because of how spread out pub currently is.
    • Players typically choose to enter TW over the other zones because of our population size. Currently, we have ~200 players on per day, spread across 5-10 arenas. Instead of a player seeing 50-60 players pubbing, there will be 100-200 pubbing, on top of the added competitive matches. They will be able to play pub basing or FFA if they choose to, but now they won't have to type a bunch of confusing commands (ESC+A, or ?go, that they don't understand) to get to each event. It will all be laid out for them. Instead of one base full of 30 people and a spawn area with 10 people, new players will see numerous events taking place simultaneously. They won't get bored of pub basing and simply log off, they may decideto give jav/wb FFA a try, or they may even decide they are ready to play one of the competitive games.


    That's all I'm going to type up for now, because I know it is a lot to take in. I've seen my posts on this topic get completely overlooked due to their density, but when I explain them one on one with veteran players they seem to think it's a good idea. This thread was made so that this innovative idea (something completely lacking in TW at the moment) gets some acknowledgement and discussion. Yes, this will take quite a while to code and implement (unless you take the smart route and just recode the current bots) but based on what progress I've seen in the zone (barely any) this is something worthwhile for staff to work on. Pub itself would now be seen as an entry level into the competitive leagues (FOR EVERY LEAGUE), instead of being completely separate, random, beginner arena that runs parallel to the leagues.

    We've been looking for a way to bridge pub with TWD/TWL, THIS IS IT.
    4:Best> pressure was a terr for halloween 4:Best> guy had 4 dudes on him attached

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  2. #2
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    Yo you just pm'd me to read this fucking book. Get a life. Any advice you giving to the game is bad advice. You are terrible at every ship. Stop pming me.

    Faggot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pressure View Post
    Drop the individual arenas of ?go base, ?go javduel, ?go wbduel, and ?go elim, and merge them with pub to form "TW-General."
    no, because:
    - I like them separate
    - It's hard to do

    not reading the rest because... cba

  4. #4
    Registered User Pressure's Avatar
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    Don't bother responding if you aren't going to take the time to read through the post.
    4:Best> pressure was a terr for halloween 4:Best> guy had 4 dudes on him attached

    4:Siaxis> what time is it in zimbobwe para?

    4:Children> every morning i wake up, look in the mirror and thank god i'm not paradise

    4:Best> Mighty's forehead has wifi

    4:Mighty> u guys ever eat a ketchup sandwich?

    4:sphinx> mighty fought a raccoon in an alley for some bbq chips

    4:RaCka> so what if paradise is dressing up as a slim jim for halloween?

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    don't bother writing a post that's both shit AND long

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    First section: putting everything into pub is a horrible idea. The spam is already bad enough at times, I don't want to be bombarded with people asking for 3 people to join the javduel or shit.

    Second section: Removing ships is a horrible idea, and will drive more players away. Removing the free-play aspect is one of the worst things we can do. Another issue is bot depdancy for all of this. When bots are down, a staffer can still host those events, but having 6 staffers all in pub hosting them would be a nightmare.
    Former TW Staff

  7. #7
    Registered User Pressure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaddowknight View Post
    First section: putting everything into pub is a horrible idea. The spam is already bad enough at times, I don't want to be bombarded with people asking for 3 people to join the javduel or shit.
    Code a command to !turnoffstats. Spam is bad in every arena at any given time. That is what ?ignore is for. Keep the zone the way it is, and new players will not stay, and the game will die and rot with the current layout.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaddowknight View Post
    Second section: Removing ships is a horrible idea, and will drive more players away. Removing the free-play aspect is one of the worst things we can do.
    In my post, I touched upon every aspect of how this change will cater to the duelers, cater to the basers, AND cater to the pubbers. How many players are die-hard weasels? 2? Sometimes you have to sacrifice a few to acquire many. Beginners who don't know what X-Radar getting killed by invisible ships will consider it cheating and unfair. Levs completely ruin the progress made in flagroom matches. Have you ever seen a cram in pub? I haven't, but without the specials you will see a dramatic increase in strategy and real basing dynamics. There are already restrictions of free-play in the other arenas, what makes this so different? Those ships are completely pointless, aren't the recent pub changes (i.e. - weakening levs, making the base larger) meant to increase basing quality? From what I know, they were implemented to do just that, and my ideas will (theoretically) make the quality of pub matches even better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaddowknight View Post
    Another issue is bot depdancy for all of this. When bots are down, a staffer can still host those events, but having 6 staffers all in pub hosting them would be a nightmare.
    I'm really not sure you're understanding my layout. Every other "event" like bug, trivia, will all run in the arenas they are currently hosted in. The only change I am proposing would be to bring the automated pick-up games to pub. Out of wbduel, javduel, base, and elim, the only one that currently needs a staffer to start is ?go base. This can easily be changed without interfering with the way it is run. If I missed your point, please re-phrase it.
    4:Best> pressure was a terr for halloween 4:Best> guy had 4 dudes on him attached

    4:Siaxis> what time is it in zimbobwe para?

    4:Children> every morning i wake up, look in the mirror and thank god i'm not paradise

    4:Best> Mighty's forehead has wifi

    4:Mighty> u guys ever eat a ketchup sandwich?

    4:sphinx> mighty fought a raccoon in an alley for some bbq chips

    4:RaCka> so what if paradise is dressing up as a slim jim for halloween?

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    This guy acts like staff will ever change any of this. Pub 0 is seriously terrible and unplayable. Any time you even feel like playing you get EMP'd or killed 24/7 by lev bombs. Cloakers need to be removed but it's honestly not that big of a deal. Moving ?go base to pub 0 would probably be the only realistic move imo.

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    Still didn't read his book of garbage^^ but clearly he is stupid dumb as he is bad at the game. Not one person agreeing with you dude. Stop playing the game so much. And stop thinking before you hurt yourself. Some Real talk for you're bitch-ass. BOOOM #letthetearsflow

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    i would be fine with having pub and a second general arena, but i see the cons outweighing the pros on having them as one.
    Former TW Staff

  11. #11
    Registered User Pressure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaddowknight View Post
    i would be fine with having pub and a second general arena, but i see the cons outweighing the pros on having them as one.
    Why is it that your cons remain to be seen? I would think that such an extensive post warrants extensive replies. This seems more political than it is rational. List what you think is wrong with my idea and I'd be happy to respond as best as I can.
    4:Best> pressure was a terr for halloween 4:Best> guy had 4 dudes on him attached

    4:Siaxis> what time is it in zimbobwe para?

    4:Children> every morning i wake up, look in the mirror and thank god i'm not paradise

    4:Best> Mighty's forehead has wifi

    4:Mighty> u guys ever eat a ketchup sandwich?

    4:sphinx> mighty fought a raccoon in an alley for some bbq chips

    4:RaCka> so what if paradise is dressing up as a slim jim for halloween?

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    who u Crescent Seal's Avatar
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    skimmed through it and tried to read the bolded print but heres my opinion:

    1) chat spam would be too annoying. pubbers are immature as hell and kids like tower c/p wikipedia 24/7. i personally like the division of arenas to filter out faggots. i only see this benefiting .?go base tbh because it might be more efficient to get it going.

    2) its true that being aware of other arenas is troublesome for new players. it took me like 4-5 months to realize that there was something more to the game than just pub. this is what I believe we should focus on. we should somehow help newbs understand how to move around arena to arena and that the game has a lot to offer outside of pub. i used to ignore the green text as well.

    3) is anyone even keeping track of when new players install the game? are there any legit "newbies" even playing? i see the same old players in every arena every time i log on. we should have a specific branch of staff dedicated to monitoring and guiding new players so the learning curve is lessened.

    4) even though we are in a shithole, i don't think we are at that level yet to consider something like 1 condensed arena. thats like a last resort type of deal.
    1:Rasaq> i scrub really hard with toilet paper so little pieces of it get stuck to my anus hair and then later on when im watching tv i like to pull them out slowly because it feels pretty good

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  13. #13
    stfu ******* schope's Avatar
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    just not reading it not because it's big, but because it's thix's idea. And we all know he will never be able to be good at this game. So his opinion just doesnt matter at all.
    8:I Hate Cookies> a gota dágua foi quando falei q eu tinha 38 anos e estava apaixonado por uma garota, mas a família dela n deixava agente namorar
    8:I Hate Cookies> aí quando todo mundo me apoiou falando q o amor supera tudo, falei q a garota tinha 12 anos
    8:I Hate Cookies> aí todos mudaram repentinamente de opinião falando q eu era um pedófilo
    8:AnImoL> esses amigos falsos
    8:SCHOPE NORRIS> o amor supera tudo. da até pra esperar a puberdade
    8:I Hate Cookies> sim... fiquei desiludido schope...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crescent Seal View Post
    skimmed through it and tried to read the bolded print but heres my opinion:

    1) chat spam would be too annoying. pubbers are immature as hell and kids like tower c/p wikipedia 24/7. i personally like the division of arenas to filter out faggots. i only see this benefiting .?go base tbh because it might be more efficient to get it going.

    2) its true that being aware of other arenas is troublesome for new players. it took me like 4-5 months to realize that there was something more to the game than just pub. this is what I believe we should focus on. we should somehow help newbs understand how to move around arena to arena and that the game has a lot to offer outside of pub. i used to ignore the green text as well.

    3) is anyone even keeping track of when new players install the game? are there any legit "newbies" even playing? i see the same old players in every arena every time i log on. we should have a specific branch of staff dedicated to monitoring and guiding new players so the learning curve is lessened.

    4) even though we are in a shithole, i don't think we are at that level yet to consider something like 1 condensed arena. thats like a last resort type of deal.


    To answer you on #3, yes, we are, and yes, we can tell if it's a real newbie a good percentage of the time. We also have a group consisting of players and staffers alike who assist newbies throughout their time in the zone.


    As for Pressure, the a number of the cons are spelled out here. The chat spam is annoying, shoving everyone into the same room WILL cause issues. Players should know how to ?go <arenaname>, as hosted events and twd would still require such. Disabling chat on a person-to-person basis for each chat type would be a pain in the ass. I don't feel the time to make franken-pub is worth it. It would be a poor version of everything. Combining other subarenas (wbduel, javduel, elim, etc) is a much more plausible task, but even then that idea has been generally disliked by both the playerbase and staff.

    I'm sure there's more, but it's late and I need to sleep.
    Former TW Staff

  15. #15
    Mascot fiS's Avatar
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    I don't even know where to start my thoughts and opinion on this. It's overwhelming.

    Even though you clearly put some thought into it, it's not thought through. In the first place: You do not play Pub. You don't know Pub other than "that's where our newbies go and stay and that's where we need to get the players away from". This is also your intention: dragging players away from pub and showing them the rest of TW. While this isn't a bad idea, putting all in one arena and enforcing heavy ship restrictions, forcing people into certain areas isn't how we play Pub and it's not how Pub will ever become.

    Secondly, Pub has always been and will always be free to play for everyone, in any ship, on any freq, minus Pure Pub times and extreme laggots. People see all the ships there, their abilities, strengths, weaknesses and Pub is the only arena where they can learn them; the basics at the very minimum.

    You are saying that everyone entering "Pub" must be Shark, Terrier or Spider and in the same sentence you are talking about adding ?go Base into Pub. Why would we do both? Are you serious? Then we would end up with a "Pub" (as YOU call it), and a Base, being exactly the same except for people get to chose between 3 ships instead of getting put into one. Putting every WB or Jav into a dueling rink isn't Pub either. I really don't know what to say to this idea other than that the "automatic area place" depending on your ship is by far one of the most terrible ideas that I've ever heard for our Public arena.

    You are certainly right when you say that it's too much what we have right now. We have too much automated arenas for not enough people. Just to mention a few, Base, Elim, Hockey, Duel+Duel2, Javduel, Wbduel, Spidduel aside from the entire TWD matches and hosted events and I personally am not a fan of all the automated events either - I would rather see some of them dropped OR merged.

    Merging them into Pub isn't an option, especially not with your "requirements" and ship-area-restrictions. As of now we already have way too much green spam, it'd get a thousand times worse if we'd merge all that into one.

    What I still think is worth a mention about your ideas and points of view... Yes, Lev and Weasel are the two most problematic ships in Pub. But they belong there and have their reason, and I've been trying to get them balanced further which certainly isn't an easy task and it seems like any compromise is impossible and not accepted by our community. What I would like to say at this point is that Pure Pub (as in Levi and Wzl restrictions as well as private freqs) is something that will be "back" temporarily, for the weekends or so.

    Also: You personally are a fan of TWDB, TWLB and ?go Base and you absolutely can't compare this to Pub. Stop doing that, please, for god's sake. Just because YOU are a fan of it (and so am I and many others), and YOU think that it's the only aspect of TW, it doesn't mean that this direction is the correct one for our one and only Public arena. Just as what you said about Teamkilling; yes, it's annoying. But it's a part of the game. People learn it and people who keep doing it get handled by staff, I love the game dynamic that teamkilling adds to it - it makes you carry and learn the responsibility, unless of course you're a troll.

    I'm pretty sure I forgot to mention some stuff, but I hope I woke you up. TW has more aspects than just competition and Base.


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pressure View Post

    • Remove levs and weasels completely.
    stopped reading here
    your idea is trash, and is just a repackaging of very old ideas from better people
    The above text is a personal opinion of an individual and is not representative of the statements or opinions of Trench Wars or Trench Wars staff.

    SSCJ Distension Owner
    SSCU Trench Wars Developer


    Last edited by Shaddowknight; Today at 05:49 AM. Reason: Much racism. So hate. Such ban. Wow.

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    Moving ?go base to pub is a great way to bring more people in the basing scene. New players will all play ?go base and eventually join a basing squadron and play twd and so on. I had this idea years ago and 15 players +1'd my thread :0(
    4:TABARNAK!!!> TABARNAK!!> ?help general aladeen is the best staffer ive ever encountered in my journey
    (zreqdf)>is he forcing u 2 say that?

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  18. #18
    Registered User Pressure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    I don't even know where to start my thoughts and opinion on this. It's overwhelming.

    Even though you clearly put some thought into it, it's not thought through. In the first place: You do not play Pub. You don't know Pub other than "that's where our newbies go and stay and that's where we need to get the players away from".
    This is untrue. I was a pubber for the first 1-3 years of my career on this game, and I still play it here and there. Yes, I use it primarily to scout players and to take the edge off when I'm bored, but to say I don't play pub, or have never played pub, or know it not to be useful for anything other than recruiting players is an uninformed claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    This is also your intention: dragging players away from pub and showing them the rest of TW.
    So, since Africa currently has no structured government, no shopping malls, no highways and complex, organized commerce, it never should have these things? Africa may want to stick to their traditional way of life, but they will never be anywhere near as technologically advanced as the rest of the world. While "dragging players away from pub" might seem like my only intention at face value, it is not as destructive an intention as it may seem. Pub is essential for beginners, but to say that the competitive aspects of Continuum aren't what have kept it alive this long is a completely false statement. What I intend to do by drawing players away is hook them on the only thing really proven to get players addicted: leagues. However, this does not mean that I don't see the value in a successful pub environment; on the contrary, I think pub should be shaped to allow players to develop their skills, and find leagues on their own without having to be pulled. Pub as it stands is a clusterfuck of nonsense with no true structure, strategy, or competitive game play. It is, as I've mentioned, a farce version of basing. It possesses similar rules, elements and game structure as the core gaming of Trench Wars, but just few of the genuine aspects of basing.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    While this isn't a bad idea, putting all in one arena and enforcing heavy ship restrictions, forcing people into certain areas isn't how we play Pub and it's not how Pub will ever become.
    Let me ask you something, fiS. It was your idea to enforce the changes made to the lev, right? What was the point? If I had to guess, I'd say that you wanted pub to be a better representation of basing. Flagroom fights would be less affected by the weaker lev, leading to longer flagroom fights, and better gameplay overall. If this is the case, why are you saying enforcing heavy ship restrictions is blasphemous, when you have done just that to the lev? As it stands, lev is basically just a slower, slightly stronger javelin, with no bouncing bombs. Yes, flagroom fights are less interrupted by LT's, but the change was made specifically to help pub's basing dynamic flourish. You ruined every veteran LT's fun, though, so why should it matter if we ruin any veteran weasel's fun (are there even any "veteran" weasels that would be so upset about losing their ship that they would quit? no.) These ships, as I've stated, serve no true purpose in basing.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    Secondly, Pub has always been and will always be free to play for everyone, in any ship, on any freq, minus Pure Pub times and extreme laggots. People see all the ships there, their abilities, strengths, weaknesses and Pub is the only arena where they can learn them; the basics at the very minimum.
    What makes you so tied to these ships that you're saying free play must be guaranteed? In true games, these ships serve no purpose. Can you explain, in detail, what purpose keeping cloaks and levs serves in the dynamics of pub? You've already sabotaged the fun of playing as lev (and even as playing as weasel, since they aren't small anymore), so what's the point of even having them available at all? You mentioned that everyone has a right to assess for themselves the strengths, and weaknesses of these ships. From what you've gathered, in your opinion, what are they, exactly? If your goal is to improve the quality of games in pub, as it seems to be based on the changes that have been made, then explain how keeping these ships help your progress. In my post, I stated clearly why these ships don't belong in pub, and why removing them would improve gameplay, and improve player quality. Time for you to defend your stance.

    You state that pub is the only arena where newbs can learn the strengths and weaknesses of these ships--but, for what end result? Who actually yearns to "master" weasel, or lev? Newcomers who are introduced to the competition actually strive to become better spiders, javs, warbirds, terrs, and sharks. No one strives for this success in weasels and levs. And even if they did, then what? They've "mastered" lev, but that's it, they plateau in pub and get bored and never come back. No one would miss these ships once they see the quality of gaming dramatically increase in pub, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    You are saying that everyone entering "Pub" must be Shark, Terrier or Spider and in the same sentence you are talking about adding ?go Base into Pub. Why would we do both? Are you serious? Then we would end up with a "Pub" (as YOU call it), and a Base, being exactly the same except for people get to chose between 3 ships instead of getting put into one.
    People who want to base in pub can either: sign up for the competitive pick up match (?go base), or play for fun in a random, less chaotic, less fake version of basing as spider, shark, or terr. I even considered the idea of allowing 2-3 wb's or jav's per team. Anyone who wants to play base on these games in these ships can easily !reserve a spot if the 2-3 spots are taken. Also, lancasters would be allowed in this basing match, with no restrictions. In the mean time, they can play in the spawn area and once a spot opens up, they can get a private message, and have 30 seconds to take the spot or it opens up for someone else. The reason there would be both is, only 16 players would be allowed to play the pick-up game. In the mean time, players who would normally just spec ?go base might find themselves motivated to jump in pub while they wait to play the ?go base game. Not all players would be able to fly from pub spawn to the ?go base match, it would be closed and automated. The players playing in the pub basing game wouldn't take that game as seriously, and if they wanted to move on to competitive play they wouldn't have to figure out how to change arenas to do it. The game would be right there for them to sign up. This is all explained in my initial post, but perhaps you just saw "change pub" and ignored the part where I listed the benefits of having ?go base in pub.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    Putting every WB or Jav into a dueling rink isn't Pub either. I really don't know what to say to this idea other than that the "automatic area place" depending on your ship is by far one of the most terrible ideas that I've ever heard for our Public arena.
    Actually, some players began their careers as spawn birds, who just flew around trying to get the best rec they possibly could. Nowadays, it's hard to really do this, as most players are fighting for the base. A free-for-all with no death limits would give players the ability to improve their skills, and simulate the exact same "pub" spawn, but with more people to kill (since most wouldn't be flying to the base). Again, you say the idea is terrible, but based on your frame of reference, I find it hard to believe that if you really thought about it you would be able to actually put up a decent argument as to why the idea is terrible. Is our zone really being ran by people who "don't realy know what to say" other than "your idea is bad, mine is better?" If so, staff should start looking inward rather than outward to fix their problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    You are certainly right when you say that it's too much what we have right now. We have too much automated arenas for not enough people. Just to mention a few, Base, Elim, Hockey, Duel+Duel2, Javduel, Wbduel, Spidduel aside from the entire TWD matches and hosted events and I personally am not a fan of all the automated events either - I would rather see some of them dropped OR merged.
    None of them should be dropped. THAT is a bad idea--pushing people who love these arenas away just because you think we have "too many." Not once did I say that I think we have too many automated events for the population; we just have too many arenas for the population to be so spread out by them. However, if some of these arenas were merged into one arena, perhaps we'd be able to showcase our full population of 100-150 people, with 50 in spec, rather than 50 people in pub where only 20-30 play. A player doesn't want to enter the "most populated zone" of 200 people only to see 50 players in spec, and 20 in the game itself. Merging the aforementioned arenas would fix this problem, and showcase multiple aspects of the zone upon entry. Again, you should re-read my post because it doesn't really feel like I'm the one who hasn't thought this through.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    Merging them into Pub isn't an option, especially not with your "requirements" and ship-area-restrictions. As of now we already have way too much green spam, it'd get a thousand times worse if we'd merge all that into one.
    Green spam? You mean private message spam? That is what the ?ignore command is for. If you can't handle it, that is what the ?nopubchat or ?lines=0 commands are for. Is this actually a viable concern? "Too much spam?" What about "too few veterans wanting to log back on" or "too few players finding the competition stimulating anymore" or "too few players finding pub interesting enough to return to the game?" These concerns are much more dire to the heart of the zone and it's longevity, not "oh my god if we merge the arenas too much discussion will go on at once!" Plus, this is something that people will easily adjust to after about a week of this change being implemented.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    What I still think is worth a mention about your ideas and points of view... Yes, Lev and Weasel are the two most problematic ships in Pub. But they belong there and have their reason
    This has yet to be seen, but go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    and I've been trying to get them balanced further which certainly isn't an easy task and it seems like any compromise is impossible and not accepted by our community. What I would like to say at this point is that Pure Pub (as in Levi and Wzl restrictions as well as private freqs) is something that will be "back" temporarily, for the weekends or so.
    If this is something that can be changed back for the weekends, why can't a TW-General be designed and implemented for one weekend just to see whether or not it is successful? If these changes can be made on a weekendly basis, why can't we test something out that might actually work, and if it doesn't, just change it back? Do you actually think if the zone is warned that we're going to temporarily try this idea out for one weekend people will just start quitting? Maybe they won't log on for that weekend we try it out (they will, but hypothetically speaking they might not if they're die-hard weasels or die-hard levs) but we won't actually lose players just by experimenting for one weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    Also: You personally are a fan of TWDB, TWLB and ?go Base and you absolutely can't compare this to Pub.
    They can't be compared? Then why is pub considered the entry level to the leagues? What is the purpose of pub at all, if it runs parallel to the leagues and competitive play? Why is the gameplay so similar (one flag, two teams fighting, specific amount of time required to win) if they are incomparable? How long have you even been playing that you are the one with this perspective making the decisions? Why do you think for some reason that these two things have to be separate? Isn't the reason you are afraid to merge base/pub because you don't want to split the population? NEWS FLASH: the population is already divided. My proposal actually offers unique, innovative measures that we can take to blend the divided populations and build bridges between the two. You're just focused on "perfecting" this pub which really has no bearing on the rest of the zone. You don't even realize that you've incidentally divided the zone with your changes. I want to feel compelled to play pub, but as long as pub is pseudo basing with bullshit settings, you'll never see me playing as a pure pubber. If pub gameplay was closer in gameplay to true basing, I'd pretty much always be in there in my spare time.

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    Stop doing that, please, for god's sake. Just because YOU are a fan of it (and so am I and many others), and YOU think that it's the only aspect of TW, it doesn't mean that this direction is the correct one for our one and only Public arena.
    You forget that pub was founded on the basis of being a basing match. I'll never stop voicing my ideas just because staff doesn't agree with them. I'm thinking about the longevity of the game as a whole, leagues and pub included, while you're just focused on pub. Maybe it's not me who should "stop making decisions" just because I'm a fan of something, but you who should look outward from pub and realize the redeemable aspects that should be kept in pub for the sake of the gameplay, and the scrap the shitty aspects that take away from it (weaker lev was a good start, but we need more changes).

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    Just as what you said about Teamkilling; yes, it's annoying. But it's a part of the game.
    It's a part of the game because we have no way of avoiding it or restricting it besides banning people. Either way, I can enter pub and TK the whole team whenever I want and as long as a staffer doesn't see it, I'll get away with it. Or I'll get warned and stop until I decide I want to do it again. A lot of people share this mentality, so why allow for teamkilling to be an aspect at all when it can be controlled?

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    People learn it and people who keep doing it get handled by staff, I love the game dynamic that teamkilling adds to it - it makes you carry and learn the responsibility, unless of course you're a troll.
    What the fuck? You love the dynamic that teamkilling adds to the game? Besides the LOLs that come from a hilarious TK, you are deluded if you think it "adds" to the dynamic of basing or pub when used deliberately. It makes you carry? We're talking about pubbers, 1% of them have the ability to "carry" their team. Learn the responsibility? What responsibility? What are you even talking about?

    Quote Originally Posted by fiS View Post
    I'm pretty sure I forgot to mention some stuff, but I hope I woke you up. TW has more aspects than just competition and Base.
    Yes, you woke me up: to the idea that some staffers really have no concept of why bridging pub to the competition is essential to the longevity of the zone. In the dark period where pub was basically dead (before KrynetiX changed it) what do you think kept this game alive? TWD/TWL/TWDT. That's it. I am fully aware of the importance of improving pub so that we can acquire and retain new players, but the end goal should be to get these players involved in the various competitive aspects of this game. This is the facet of Trench Wars that keeps players interested, that keeps players coming back, and that forms the relationships exhibited throughout the players of the zone. This is the one part of Continuum that has players most addicted to the game. Pub has some fans, sure, but the fanbase of the competition heavily outweighs the fanbase of pub. Not just in passion, but quantity. It's funny, you keep inferring that my idea would further split the populous of this game into competitive players and pubbers with my idea, but you're the only one implicating the division. You want pub to stay separate from the competition and exist as it's own entity, while I'm suggesting we merge the two and bring out the best in both.

    I hope I woke you up with this post.
    Last edited by Pressure; 09-11-2013 at 03:10 PM.
    4:Best> pressure was a terr for halloween 4:Best> guy had 4 dudes on him attached

    4:Siaxis> what time is it in zimbobwe para?

    4:Children> every morning i wake up, look in the mirror and thank god i'm not paradise

    4:Best> Mighty's forehead has wifi

    4:Mighty> u guys ever eat a ketchup sandwich?

    4:sphinx> mighty fought a raccoon in an alley for some bbq chips

    4:RaCka> so what if paradise is dressing up as a slim jim for halloween?

  19. #19
    zeebu 'DUMPTRUCK' johnson Zeebu's Avatar
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    Any staff want to comment on why pub 0 is not enjoyable and unplayable? Lev really kills pub and instead of doing something about it you make it so they can shoot bullets from there butt. Great work! For me personally, if I was a new player playing this game I would have no clue there were even any other arenas. Secondly, without knowing you could play any other arenas you play the same shit pub and get lev bombed constantly. They won't be learning anything from the game and would quit immediately. Wouldn't it make more sense if for instance had to use this trash PUB BUX to buy the levi. At least then I would know some newbie spent time playing a different ship for once and earned the money through basing.
    Last edited by Hulk; 09-11-2013 at 03:43 PM.

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