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Thread: Borrowing - w/ updates, + !borrowme, !borrowlist

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  1. #1
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Borrowing - w/ updates, + !borrowme, !borrowlist

    Currently testing player borrowing, albeit in a pretty basic state. This allows caps/asscaps to borrow anyone who is TWD-registered, including members of the other team, players who are not squadjoined, etc.


    To borrow:



    • Both sides must use !borrow. This enables borrowing, and disables both squad and personal ratings changes (for the time being)
    • !borrow <name> to initiate a borrow request
    • The player must !acceptborrow
    • Once the borrow is accepted, the bot will inform you that the player has joined the squad for the duration of the game
    • You then just !add them as normal
    • To stop borrowing a player (such as if someone from your squad comes on and you want to give the other squad a player back), do !borrow <name>





    Questions to think about:

    • How many people should you be able to borrow for a game? At the moment it's 1 for dd/jd, and 3 for bd.
    • Should there be any limit on how often players can be borrowed?
    • Should players with a higher rating cost more to borrow? If so, how is the cost determined, and how is it paid? Do squads get points that refresh every day, week or month? Do they have to pay using spacebux, incentivizing pub and event play?
    • Should squad ratings be changed in games with borrowed players? A percentage? How much, and based on what?
    • Should player ratings change in games with borrowed players? %?
    Last edited by qan; 11-23-2016 at 03:30 AM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User Fork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qan View Post
    Currently testing player borrowing, albeit in a pretty basic state. This allows caps/asscaps to borrow anyone who is TWD-registered, including members of the other team, players who are not squadjoined, etc.


    To borrow:



    • Both sides must use !borrow. This enables borrowing, and disables both squad and personal ratings changes (for the time being)
    • !borrow <name> to initiate a borrow request
    • The player must !acceptborrow
    • Once the borrow is accepted, the bot will inform you that the player has joined the squad for the duration of the game
    • You then just !add them as normal
    • To stop borrowing a player (such as if someone from your squad comes on and you want to give the other squad a player back), do !borrow <name>





    Questions to think about:

    • How many people should you be able to borrow for a game? At the moment you could technically borrow your entire lineup.
    • Should there be any limit on how often players can be borrowed?
    • Should players with a higher rating cost more to borrow? If so, how is the cost determined, and how is it paid? Do squads get points that refresh every day, week or month? Do they have to pay using spacebux, incentivizing pub and event play?
    • Should squad ratings be changed in games with borrowed players? A percentage? How much, and based on what?
    • Should player ratings change in games with borrowed players? %?
    The thing is no one's really bothered much about twd points but a fair way would be:

    Each borrowed player should reduce the total amount of points the squad gets if they win by a %. I would think up to 50% reduction on 1 borrowed player, 70% on 2 and 90% on 3 borrowed players. Why high % of reduction on 1 borrowed player? Because adding 1 top player could guarantee a win for that team (adding stayon or ease).

    I can't decide if it's a good thing to allow 2 or 3 players to be borrowed, it would mean squad vs world which is cool. My gut feeling tells me to borrow one player only because at least you kinda know who u will b vsing wen you challenge a squad, where as if u allowed borrowing of 3 players, noone will know who they going to play, and it could be random all the time defeating some purpose of squad dueling. Imagine if u vsed the same top 3 players no matter what squad u challenged? Ouch.



    Idea One (involving pub/ twd)

    (Brainstorming only) If you're capable of adding it in, I feel that it should be made in a way that makes it less easy to borrow players. Squads have got to buy to borrow a player using spacebux from (if possible a squad wallet). There should be a spacebux price on players and people can go to a website to view the current prices. I'm thinking like to borrow someone like stayon, you would need like 50k spacebux where as of you borrowed yojimbo it would b free (just messing yojimbo! ) So these squad wallets are basically a storage where players in the squad can donate their spacebux into it. It would be nice to donate (to squad wallet) only what u earn in pub and it won't allow you donate money that's already been donated to u from another player (something which might b impossible to do). If was set in place, spacebux would actually have a purpose in pub + people hopefully will play pub just to fund their squad wallets. Again, just brainstorming ideas.



    Idea Two (Easier to implement)

    An easier method could be: Each time a squad completes a TWD game- they are earned 5 TWD coins (or something along the lines as sertifi would say). With these TWD coins, squads can buy to borrow a player. Again players will cost more than others.



    Idea Three

    Players can be borrowed for free but depending on the player + current rank of the squad on the ladders. You could use the TWDT ranking system to grade each player and have it like this:
    Rank 5-6 players can borrowed on any squad regardless of what rank the the squad is currently at.
    Rank 7-8 players can be borrowed on any squad less than rank 2
    Rank 9-10 players can be borrowed only on any squads less then rank 4.

    Idea allows shitter squads to potentially borrow top players/ prevents top squads from borrowing top players to keep winning.
    Last edited by Fork; 10-11-2016 at 09:22 AM.
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  3. #3
    Zone Staff idkidc1233's Avatar
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    I'm sure that hardly anyone cares about the points, but having both teams borrow while rating is voided makes it feel like javduel/wbduel. But it can also be unfair if the people borrowing win because of that borrowed player. Honestly, I can't see the use of borrowing being useful except for twbd, to get that extra 1 or 2 people to bd.
    idkidc1233

  4. #4
    SM Town Kim's Avatar
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    If its 3v3, borrow one. 4v4, borrow 2. 5v5 borrow 3. Would like to hear people's opinions on this. Allowing up to 3 to borrow for 5v5's might boost the 5's games happening, which is more reflective of TWDT and TWL games so its better practice than the 3v3's happening.
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  5. #5
    ` Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    If its 3v3, borrow one. 4v4, borrow 2. 5v5 borrow 3. Would like to hear people's opinions on this. Allowing up to 3 to borrow for 5v5's might boost the 5's games happening, which is more reflective of TWDT and TWL games so its better practice than the 3v3's happening.
    I agree with this. more 5v5 games pls!

    Quote Originally Posted by fork
    Each borrowed player should reduce the total amount of points the squad gets if they win by a %.
    I believe this would be good to take into consideration, especially if the ratings are for qualifying for twl.
    Quote Originally Posted by jerome
    can we stop and wonder in amazement at the fact that we play a VIDEO GAME that has "generations"???

  6. #6
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    I'd keep rating but cut it to 50% for any borrowing

  7. #7
    Registered User Stayon's Avatar
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    It's good that it's finally here but in a way it's already being abused by goofs.

    Yes, points or stats aren't important as they are reset systematicly, but on the other side of the coin, most of us still like em to the point that it gives TWD a bit of meaning and this might turn TWD into a huge javduel/wbduel/go base fest.

    Personally I have 0 interest in playing games with borrowed people, as I want some meaning on it regardless if I'm on Paladen getting beat down by whoever stacks against us. Meaning I rather lose with some meaning than just playing like it's a "random" arena. Same goes to winning.

    I don't think borrowing should be allowed to 3vs3, at all. TWD already has the 3 players option instead of 4 like the old days, so getting 3 people isn't an impossible task. 4vs4 or 5vs5, one is enough.

    I mostly think borrowing should be for TWBD for obvious reasons such as activity and the number of people needed, so 2 would be more than enough.

    Attack's ideas and desires to make TWD more relevant are pretty good, but be carefull with this..as it might become at the same time the end of it. I'm sure you'll find a suitable balance. Good work.

  8. #8
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    I agree with mr dookieman. Borrowing should only be for BD. If u dont have 3 to play jd/dd so be it, stack ur squad some more with active player ;c
    Major Crisis

  9. #9
    who u Crescent Seal's Avatar
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    It can definitely bring life back into twbd and I see the points people have about twdd/twjd. But like Kim said, more 5vs5 in both dd/jd would be more reflective of TWL and therefore bring significance back to twd in general. I like the idea of allocating 50% points for borrowed games. Just keep a track of activity and analyze the results to move forward.
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  10. #10
    who u Crescent Seal's Avatar
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    Being the #1 hot commodity in this game aka most borrowed player of all time, I'm beginning to see a few negatives of this. The games are losing their credibility which in turn results in players not really trying. Have also noticed that squads who have 5 are still borrowing veterans to win. This system favors the pros and once again widens the skill gap.
    1:Rasaq> i scrub really hard with toilet paper so little pieces of it get stuck to my anus hair and then later on when im watching tv i like to pull them out slowly because it feels pretty good

    1:Mutalisk> heard that n1111ga okyo got some DSLs

    5:Eggboy32> easier is to pee in bucket and drop it on ur head and let it soak down

    Paradise> No names but there's actually a black man in the arena right now.

    Jones> MAAAAN1111GA UCHIHA

    Klean-X> because i am armenian
    wicket666> its american

  11. #11
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    allow borrow for twbd - up to 2 players max (get those 8v8)
    disallow borrow for twdd/twjd if 3v3
    allow borrow for twdd/twjd if 4v4 or 5v5 - 1 player borrow max per game
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  12. #12
    Registered User Omega Red's Avatar
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    Guys since the incentive to play TWD is for squad points, allow points. (50% ,20%, 10% doesn't matter to me personally just something.)

    If no points gained can be accommodated PLEASE allow stats to be recorded on TWD. I wanna see my stats for games I've played with or against borrowed games on TWD site.

  13. #13
    Registered User Fork's Avatar
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    Yeh I agree with heaven and omega. This will just be trial and error until a majority are satisfied.

    Just to point out there seems to be a bug when both teams agree to borrow and a team doesn't add enough players, score remains 0-0 and if the same thing happens in the next game, score still remains at 0-0 when should be 2-0 or w/e.

    Other slight things I would like to see happen, if both teams agree to for borrow first round then i don't think we need to request for it again every round like what we have to do at present. A team could be evil and decide not to agree for borrow 2nd round (even though the first round had borrowed players) for a sneaky win (if the team didn't have enough on their own) or to annoy the team. Also would b nice if when u borrow a player, u can add them in automatically for the remaining rounds (don't have to ask them again if they would like to be borrowed again)
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  14. #14
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fork View Post
    Just to point out there seems to be a bug when both teams agree to borrow and a team doesn't add enough players, score remains 0-0 and if the same thing happens in the next game, score still remains at 0-0 when should be 2-0 or w/e.

    Other slight things I would like to see happen, if both teams agree to for borrow first round then i don't think we need to request for it again every round like what we have to do at present. A team could be evil and decide not to agree for borrow 2nd round (even though the first round had borrowed players) for a sneaky win (if the team didn't have enough on their own) or to annoy the team. Also would b nice if when u borrow a player, u can add them in automatically for the remaining rounds (don't have to ask them again if they would like to be borrowed again)
    Haven't heard about that first bug; will have to check it out.

    Regarding the second, thought that was fixed! Damn. Gonna have to check it out again. Sorry about that... assumed since I didn't hear anything that it was resolved with the attempted fix.
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
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  15. #15
    Registered User Stayon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fork View Post
    Yeh I agree with heaven and omega. This will just be trial and error until a majority are satisfied.

    Just to point out there seems to be a bug when both teams agree to borrow and a team doesn't add enough players, score remains 0-0 and if the same thing happens in the next game, score still remains at 0-0 when should be 2-0 or w/e.
    Quote Originally Posted by qan View Post
    Haven't heard about that first bug; will have to check it out.
    LOL there's no bug, no worries Qan. That was vs the team I'm on, and we were trying to get Wreck to play with 3 rostered players, so before the last second, I specced to keep forcing another round and buy time for Wreck to get a 3rd player, hence why both teams forfeited with just 2 players in and we had two 0-0 draws, and eventually a 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds actually being played.

    Was fun seeing Fork get paranoid!

    What Fork said on the "2nd" bug though is legit and I agree, the commands should be done once and not be repeated on the 2nd round to ask permission.

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