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Thread: TWDT Hot or Not -- Finals Edition

  1. #21
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    should we consider dropping the 8* limit of 3 in jav and wb to 2 to promote more low stars getting game time? That also might increase the amount of teams we can have as tbh the issue isn't 8*+ players showing, its all the players who are 7* and below who after a week or two into a season realise they are going to ride the bench so just stop logging in.

    For basing we could drop it down again although I feel basing is probably fine as it is?

    Just fuel for thought on how we can maximise the reach of TWDT to be more inclusive...although I'm conscious the obvious issue is reducing the quality of matches in wb and jav.
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  2. #22
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    I get the idea that the format helps people get involved, but it means someone gives up their spot for that, and it's at the mercy of whoever does the ratings. I've been 5, 6, 7, and 8 star. So I've been both on the winning and losing side of the format. I have one of the best attendance records, all I want to do is show up and be able to play. I don't want to give up my spot for someone else.

    The more rigid the rules, the more likely they are to prevent someone like me from being able to play. I think that's just as important as trying to get others to play. Generally the higher rated players are the most active and I think that should be rewarded, not punished.
    Last edited by Rab; 06-06-2017 at 08:30 AM.

  3. #23
    Registered User Wazzaaa.nl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rab View Post
    ... Generally the higher rated players are the most active and I think that should be rewarded, not punished.
    true true
    but don't they already have their time to shine in TWL
    not sure what the basics is about TWDT, but i always thought it as a league that's newb-friendly
    unlike TWL, cause TWL is for the experts
    and TWDT was the league where new players could shine and make a name
    and might get picked up by the TWL squads/ the pro groups to further develop their talent
    i think ricko is making a good point/ food for thought
    just my 2 cents
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  4. #24
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    Strictly thinking and talking as a player here. There should be a way to reward activity and high show up rates. I was stuck at bench whole TWDTB season, playing only few games which hardly had any meaning (Boring games where you can try to beat your terr's record), starting in wb and jav which I've never played on the level that I would make myself a starter (thanks to zidane tho I feel like contributing towards the medals Power won). The only lucky thing is we somehow managed to win games with a pure baser as a starter. While the player who took my spot is good and has won numerous medals in TWL - I've not played TWL long enough to match him and he does not show up for anything but that one hour on Sundays. I on the other hand host and play base on daily basis. The only thing I was looking forward to was starting TWDTB and my interest towards this format as a player has gone down a bit.

    Probably most will just crack jokes about this, that's priceless and expected. However with this being our only real and competitive league at the moment - how either of us are ever going to be played or have our rating re-checked for example if we don't get to play when it may matter? There is no way to change your rating, nobody cares to look at go base for example. Secondly as we have newer players we should probably look towards weighing the ratings based on other things than for example TWL history. Investing on future should be our task more than securing playing time for the same players year after year.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazzaaa.nl View Post
    true true
    but don't they already have their time to shine in TWL
    not sure what the basics is about TWDT, but i always thought it as a league that's newb-friendly
    unlike TWL, cause TWL is for the experts
    and TWDT was the league where new players could shine and make a name
    and might get picked up by the TWL squads/ the pro groups to further develop their talent
    i think ricko is making a good point/ food for thought
    just my 2 cents
    There is no TWL anymore, it got scraped in favor of TWDT(and rightly so). The vets are the only reason this game still exists, especially the competition, no way you should remove their spots. Too many vets get benched already. IMO i think its fine as it is, impossible to make everyone happy.
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  6. #26
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    Thumbs up

    huge thanks to all who contributed by capping, making videos, writing h&n's, hosting and running the league. Congrats to those who won and reached finals.

    thanks claus for stepping up, making banners and writing great pieces like this. but most importantly; thanks for this thing:

    The Winning team is in the top, gold bordered box, while the Runner-Up is in the bottom, silver bordered box.
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    can we stop and wonder in amazement at the fact that we play a VIDEO GAME that has "generations"???

  7. #27
    Registered User Omega Red's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kess View Post
    There is no TWL anymore, it got scraped in favor of TWDT(and rightly so). The vets are the only reason this game still exists, especially the competition, no way you should remove their spots. Too many vets get benched already. IMO i think its fine as it is, impossible to make everyone happy.

    Kess is right. As you erode more veteran spots you will open more spots for the casuals. There is a reason these players suck, they usually dont care enough to play (or even show up on Sundays) and have low game iq.

    I can speak personally from my experience on Brexit, our low star players in basing/jav never showed or cared enough to practice consistently causing the overall team consistency/performance to suffer. There were times where we had multiple high star basers in spec (mostly me) and could barely scrap together low star suck-asses to even have 8.

  8. #28
    Registered User olde's Avatar
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    More, smaller teams. Allows more ppl to play. But then the risk of no shows. So its a very delicat thing.

  9. #29
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    my intention with the idea of reducing 3 8* players to 2 8* players in wb/jav was not to reduce game time for vets, but actually to see if we could increase the number of teams in the league by spreading out the higher * players across more teams so that more 7* and lower pilots can play too.

    It's only an idea - doesn't really matter to me if it changes or stays as it is, I like how it is at the moment.
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  10. #30
    Cows 4 magic beans! Attacks's Avatar
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    Honestly more people got to play in twl who were not so hot, all these stars ratings mean for captains is we look for the most broken 6 star and 7 stars in each league (other caps please dont say you dont also do this), usually people who are high stars in other leagues are picked to keep them happy for not playing in their main league, my opinion is still pick players as normal, more teams and scrap star limits. Or just do another twl, least people get a chance to play on paladen or spark instead of getting overlooked in twdt


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  11. #31
    Cows 4 magic beans! Attacks's Avatar
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    What im trying to say is lets not dress up twdt and say its inclusive when its not. If summer league works out perhaps that is the inclusive league.
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    Sol ^> 18 and scouse, so that two kids you have by now, brit?

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  12. #32
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    As a cap I can definitely say I feel it's the 8* spot that gets hurt the most, theyre the ones usually fighting for a spot to start. They are usually more active than ur low stars and youll have more on your team since you drafted at least 3+ (wb/jav) in each league to ensure you aren't ever playing some low * in that spot.

    I think the current format is fine but maybe put some more time in making the ratings this year... probably best thing to do would be to lower the quantity of 8* by a bit but you'll end up having a few more broken 7s. There's honestly no perfect solution but I definitely like the concept of having to play low stars so I wouldnt scrap that ever. Another option would be to change the basing requirements to match WB/JAV, so in base you would only need one 7 and one 6, instead of two 7s. I feel like it was the 8* basers who got screwed over the most

  13. #33
    House Targaryen Claushouse's Avatar
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    There is no perfect solution. I cannot reiterate this enough.

    The key is to continually change players ratings (especially bubble players like Rab and Major Crisis who border being either a 7 or an 8) depending on how much playtime they had and how successful they were.

    Season 13: Major Crisis 7-Star wins TWDT-B as a starter and does very well >>> changed to 8
    Season 14: Major Crisis 8-Star gets benched in TWDT-B and complains >>> changed to 7
    Season 15: See how Major does again as a 7-Star

    Also, changing the formatting to target different player groups sometimes helps get more people involved. But it's impossible to please everyone all the time.

    You can also be perfectly rated, and would be a starter on most teams, but the particular team your on has a glut of players who play the same position at the same star level.

    The issue is that the ratings were done without any understanding or knowledge of how those players seasons went last year.

    I think Henry Saari is being a huge whiner, considering that he was an 8-Star starter on a TWDT-B Finals team in 2015 (Power), then a starter again on a TWDT-B Finals team in 2016 (Terrorist). That is way luckier than most players and playing half the season on a stacked Power team in 2017 and getting to play a whole round of the Semi-Finals (50% of his team's playoff games) is pretty good.

    I benched all of 2012 being too high star rating in all three leagues, I understand it's a bummer, but it's a delicate balance.

    I'm not sure there is enough activity and population to go back to 8 Teams, and I know for a fact there aren't enough good caps for 8 teams -- because I couldn't find 8 good caps even 4 years ago messaging 72 different veterans asking them to cap. IMO the best season of TWDT was 2016 (Fall) with 6 teams and 6 really good caps (Dreamwin, Zidane, Commodo, Tiny, Attacks, Pressure), all fighting for the playoffs even into the final week.

    I also think making playoffs per league was a bad idea, and it 100% needs to return to making it through overall wins to better incentivize spreading talent.

    I've spoken at length with beasty about low-star spots, and we thought that changing it to a centigrade system (rating players 1-100) might be interesting to try. The low-star slots would be:

    6-Team Format

    WB/Jav:

    0-65
    0-74

    Base:

    0-65
    0-74
    0-83

    The 0-83 slot would be really nice for guys like Henry Saari, Rab, Major Crisis, Ra, etc. who are not 7s, but not really 8s either, they tend to be in the 76-79 range which whole numbers can't account for, and are a legitimate step down from guys like M_M God, Trasher, Dreamwin, Cripple, etc.

    8-Team Format

    WB/Jav:

    0-65
    0-74
    0-83

    Base:

    0-65
    0-74
    0-74
    0-83


    The danger is always that we're punishing talent too harshly and that it is the veterans who are the most active and highest showing players who keep the zone alive.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claushouse View Post
    I also think making playoffs per league was a bad idea, and it 100% needs to return to making it through overall wins to better incentivize spreading talent.
    I think this should be the main change for the next(?) TWDT season. The other one would be ratings that are done by 5/6 ppl instead of 1, really how hard is that?
    KESS let me down in mortars... damn puta!!! DOUBLE THE PUTA TIME!! ?go doublejavs -Cig <ER>

    SUH SUH G. SPAWNFEST TIME. calling out all muh boys ?go JAVUFC to play -Children <ER>

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  15. #35
    House Targaryen Claushouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kess View Post
    I think this should be the main change for the next(?) TWDT season. The other one would be ratings that are done by 5/6 ppl instead of 1, really how hard is that?
    Those were the 2 changes the new TWDT Ops made (Henry made making playoffs per league, and Vys did the ratings)

    Basically you're saying let's go back to what we were doing the seasons prior, which I agree with. There seems to be a misconception I did the ratings by myself. When I say "I did the ratings" I mean I took the final say, but I always consulted 5-6 people across various leagues. I've never determined a single jav rating in my life. I've consulted players like Mythril, Zidane, Stayon, Ease, etc. and looked at prior results in TWDT, TWL, and TWD to try to do the best job possible.

    I wasn't playing TW or involved until late in the process for this season, but I plan to be more involved earlier on. I'm still not interested in being TWDT Op, I think Henry is a good fit for the job and should do it solo next season, but when it comes to planning/structuring/rating and doing all the stuff before the season starts, I will take an active role.

    Given the dearth of Captains, it may be for the best, as I could fill that role again. I'm retiring Baratheon, and if I cap I will start fresh with Lannister (Mean Gene already capped as Stark, and Cres was Targaryen) and try to be more ambitious in winning all three leagues (although it is still extremely difficult to do so as a 1-league captain with the worst pick every year).

    We need to vet captains and do a better job getting qualified applicants. I rejected delectable as an applicant when I was TWDT Op, and was disappointed to see him granted a Captaincy, as he is a complete moron. Good captains are so, so important.

    The people who should be targeted as TWDT Captains are:

    Successful Former TWDT Captains:

    Zidane
    Dreamwin
    Attacks
    Ogron
    Commodo
    Tiny
    Stayon
    Pressure


    Prime Candidates Who Haven't Capped:

    Markmrw
    Ricko
    Kess
    Mythril
    Omega Red
    Trasher
    Turban
    24
    Porkjet
    Mcvicar


    The best captains tend to be basers, as it is the hardest league to plan and pick for (it's pretty hard to screw up picking wbs and javs) and I see way too many non-basers invest heavily into TWDT-B and get rocked, then find themselves thin in TWDT-D and TWDT-J.

    It's not like I havent asked all these people to cap before -- almost everyone says no. There are amazing caps like Ease and Hulk who I 100% know will not cap, too.

    Not a lot of people want to step up and cap, and capping is the most important issue. It's more important than star ratings and how you make playoffs. They determine the fate of 30 players' seasons and whether it's a great experience, or complete shit.

    Honestly, if you can get 6 of those 18 people I named, I would be fucking amazed. If you can get 8, run an 8-team league. Otherwise, stick to 6, and get 6 good caps.
    Last edited by Claushouse; 06-06-2017 at 08:24 PM.
    2:RaCka> I wonder what turban's real name is
    2gron> turb's name IRL is tellixador icantshow
    2:RaCka> LOL
    2:Heaven> LOl

    Ogron> what's your showrate, i got the next FA pick
    24> i can only show Week 2

  16. #36
    Registered User Weak's Avatar
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    There's always going to be borderline issues when it comes to ratings but I do agree that we need to have a qualified group of people doing them as a consensus.

    Personally - I was rated an 8 in jav (which is a stretch imo since I rarely get to play it and when it came to dtj I didn't get to play one round due to having other 8s. I know with whatever system we choose to use..we won't appease everyone. Due to knowing that I wasn't going to get playing time in Jav/Base - I'd typically log off after wb. I wanted to play..just like everyone else but I knew with this system, that it just wasn't in the cards

  17. #37
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    Unless they introduced a 7.5 rating in it and increased it to 6 vs 6 in draft jav and warbird. (Rank: 4-6, 7, 7.5, 8, 9, 10- 6 players) and if a team has no rank 10, they can use 2 rank 9s. This is just a suggestion only, np if noone likes the idea but it really does mean more players are likely to play which I know is what many people want.
    Last edited by Fork; 06-07-2017 at 03:53 AM.
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  18. #38
    Birger Brosa
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    I have wondered why the ratings don't start from 1? Would it be possible to make an overall star limit of lineup, so you could choose to play 4 star players and 1 complete rookie, if you so choose? Or 5 good, not star, players, if no rookies show up. How about adding 6th player into wb/jav games, if getting playtime for good players is an issue? Would it be possible to change a player's rating if they appear to be clearly underrated, like some EG'rs seem to be?

  19. #39
    zeebu 'DUMPTRUCK' johnson Zeebu's Avatar
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    i like adding the idea of a much larger range for ratings and enforcing a sort of total team cap rule.


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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claushouse View Post
    Those were the 2 changes the new TWDT Ops made (Henry made making playoffs per league, and Vys did the ratings)
    I have no issue with the playoff per league thing being tried. It was something new worth being tested, imo its worse than the previous system. OP(s) should look at it again and decide whats best to the next TWDT.

    The ratings part however, was a disaster from the start and everyone could see that. i have no idea how vys thought he could do it solo when he isnt even an active player, takes breaks for months and doesnt know much about basing. i appreciate the effort, but it was awful.

    Regarding me being a captain, i considered it for this season, but due to me not being sure about being able to be around every sunday for atleast 3/4 hours, i decided not to do it. I ended up having to miss alot of the wb periods and even some jav games. What i ask of veterans like me who for whatever reason prefer not to be a captain, is to try and help your captain with drafting/FA, covering for potencial days the captain cant show, talking with other players making sure they understand their role and helping with w/e they need, etc. This also goes a long way for making sure a team is ran well, as relying on one person only is a recipe for disaster.

    I think in general captains did a great job this season, as Delectable was the only clear failure. I didnt expect much of Jessup's team and it seemed like they were going to implode, but they turned around nicely and ended up being a strong wb team, even with lots of no shows. Kudos to you Jess.
    KESS let me down in mortars... damn puta!!! DOUBLE THE PUTA TIME!! ?go doublejavs -Cig <ER>

    SUH SUH G. SPAWNFEST TIME. calling out all muh boys ?go JAVUFC to play -Children <ER>

    1:cripple> i luv lbj cock
    1:cripple> if he paid me 50k for every time i gave him a bj i'd do it

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