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Thread: TWDT Hot or Not -- Finals Edition

  1. #41
    Cows 4 magic beans! Attacks's Avatar
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    My season went down hill as soon as we became favourites for something, someone said we were going to win TWTDB and we crashed out before playoffs, Someone said we had a powerhouse jav line ready to win, we crashed out in semis, Lastly Ogron predicted we would win finals in TWDTD, you guessed it Car Crash! Please say my team is a load of utter shite next season plz
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  2. #42
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steep View Post
    I have wondered why the ratings don't start from 1?
    Here's a secret: they do start from 1.

    Players rated 6 are technically 1-6. It's a safety measure designed to protect the league. I'll give you a real example using myself:

    In 2011, TWDT teams had an overall star cap. You had 55 stars to spend on players, and they were rated 1-10. Someone rates little heard of player named "Ogron" a 2 or 3 in base. Well, it turns out this Ogron is actually pretty good at base. Oops! Ogron isn't actually a 2 or 3, he's a 7 or 8.

    Now having Ogron in your basing line and only costing 2 stars means you can play Cape + Zidane/Cig Smoke + Megaman89/Kess/NL>Trigger/SquallFF8/Ogron, and your 2 star Ogron is putting up 140-69 in spider in the Finals and you're outkilling the enemy by 150 because your team is getting 5-6 extra stars value.

    The rating is 5-6 stars off. Think about how much people cried about Zizzo being 1 star off. Now imagine being 6 stars off. That's fucking insane.

    Talented, unknown players can go from being a 1 to a 7 in the span of a TWDT season. There is an exponential learning curve the higher you go (going from 7 to 8 to 9 to 10), but early on you can definitely blow through star ratings quickly. Rating everyone bad or new or unknown as a 5-6 means that, at worst, the star rating is only 1-2 off for anyone that explodes onto the scene. It's a safety valve.

    Someone who is misrated can hurt the league being 1 rating off, but being 5-6 off just turns it to complete shit.


    Quote Originally Posted by kess
    Regarding me being a captain, i considered it for this season, but due to me not being sure about being able to be around every sunday for atleast 3/4 hours
    I think there is a misconception that you need to be able to show 100% and always be there. Commodo and Attacks have missed lots of time, used assistants and surrogates, etc. and been excellent caps who provided a great environment for their team to succeed. It's better to have you captain and not always being able to be there than having delectable draft an awful team and make terrible decisions and trades.

    If we had 6 other caps who were excellent caps AND showed 100%, then yes, you should be left out of consideration, but that isn't the case and hasn't been for a long time.

  3. #43
    Cows 4 magic beans! Attacks's Avatar
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    I knew I wouldn't be able to make every third sunday, So I recruited Commodo and Pressure with this in mind, but even if I hadn't I knew I could trust Iron Survivor for wb, and a trusted veteran in each league whoever it might be, honestly anyone can pick line while your away, if your that worried you can even leave your lineup with a trusted player, its the trading, getting people to show and stroking peoples egos which is mostly done during the week which is more difficult. Honestly don't let that put you off Kess you would make a great captain long as you pick a good Deputy or make sure the people you pick are loyal to you.
    British> my 18th tomoz $$
    Sol ^> 18 and scouse, so that two kids you have by now, brit?

    i.d.> I just farted and shit myself alittle bit

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attacks View Post
    I knew I wouldn't be able to make every third sunday, So I recruited Commodo and Pressure with this in mind, but even if I hadn't I knew I could trust Iron Survivor for wb, and a trusted veteran in each league whoever it might be, honestly anyone can pick line while your away, if your that worried you can even leave your lineup with a trusted player, its the trading, getting people to show and stroking peoples egos which is mostly done during the week which is more difficult. Honestly don't let that put you off Kess you would make a great captain long as you pick a good Deputy or make sure the people you pick are loyal to you.
    I really like how u drafted ur team, not only due to the talent, but the type of ppl u took first. having players like thix and commodo are essential to a successful season.

    I think that players are mostly put off by the managing the team thingy, drafting and trading is the easy part
    KESS let me down in mortars... damn puta!!! DOUBLE THE PUTA TIME!! ?go doublejavs -Cig <ER>

    SUH SUH G. SPAWNFEST TIME. calling out all muh boys ?go JAVUFC to play -Children <ER>

    1:cripple> i luv lbj cock
    1:cripple> if he paid me 50k for every time i gave him a bj i'd do it

  5. #45
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    Attacks has been a great cap the last two seasons. He could have easily won two or three titles last season as Curse if Ease had been able to show in the Semi-Finals vs. Terrorist, and I was really surprised he didn't win at least one title this year with such an excellent, well-rounded team in all three leagues as Brexit.

    But honestly, the best season I ever ran was the 2016 (Fall) season... which was only 8 months ago, and the reason is that we had 6 great caps. I think that should be our goal for October. You can check out all the details on that season in the final Hot or Not here and see for yourself.

    If that's too much effort, just look at the standings from last season:



    It was extremely competitive. I remember Zid being worried we could potentially miss the playoffs in the final week of the regular season, and no one even knew who made the playoffs between Silence and Curse until an hour after the games concluded (Silence had a winning tiebreak with Curse but fell 1 win short.)

    The "worst" team was Tiny's, who had just reached two finals and won a title, and by the looks of it you'd think "oh they were trash in base", except they weren't... they lost games 15-11, 15-13, 15-14, 15-11 and a bunch of close jav and wb games.

    They had 24, Shadowmere, Geio, Tiny, Porkjet, Mikkiz, Hellkite, Solace, pavement, Weaver, Henry Saari, etc.

    It was a solid team that just fell a bit short.

    Power was like the 5th best basing team that season, and we were pretty decent. It was just a really great year with excellent capping.

  6. #46
    ` Jones's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeebu View Post
    i like adding the idea of a much larger range for ratings and enforcing a sort of total team cap rule.
    this
    Quote Originally Posted by jerome
    can we stop and wonder in amazement at the fact that we play a VIDEO GAME that has "generations"???

  7. #47
    zeebu 'DUMPTRUCK' johnson Zeebu's Avatar
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    and ogron, to combat mid season improvement (or failure) from misrated folks, i wonder if we could have a midseason re-rate. or even piggybacking on this TSL league a weekly rerate (with a cap on the amount a person can change weekly) based on some sort of automatic system. for wb/jav at least that seems possible. basing would be way tougher.

    spitballing here. i do not understand how much work that would entail

    i would be willing to sit down and discuss some formulas on how this could be achieved though. i do not know how to program bots though, so that part is not in my skillset.


    1996 Minnesota State Pooping Champion

  8. #48
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    Claus, I did understand why I was an 8 in base, just because it seemed that TW lacked terrs. But I have seen the reason "you can play all three ships" passing by.. While before this TWDT season I havent touched spider in a competitive match for years, dont think I even touched it in TWL/TWDT, still have problems going even... Shark same thing, but I played it some for Sage in TWL.. That with me being total inactive right before TWDT started, I could have also understand if I was a 7..

    But my main problem with my ratings was my jav rating. How can you rate someone who has only gone once positive last season and never in TWLJ an 8? The only assumption I can make, it was because of Envy, since Geio and kado also got rated 8. We won a lot because of our teaming and lack of competition in twd. Besides that there were 42 javs who got rated 8 or higher. Thats way too much for 6 teams (18 spots), like half of them were 8's (27).. In wb's its 36 people, 18 of them are 9 or 10. This means that some teams even had 4 people as 9 or 10 for those spots..
    As someone stated before, 8's get benched a lot in both jav and wb matches. I would recommend making wb and jav like 6, 7 and 8 star needed in line up.
    Back to the javelin ratings. How can someone give Kim, revered and ro a 8. While you also rate people like me, Fork, kado and hellkite an 8. No way those people are the same level. Ofcourse there are some mismatched ratings in a season, but it feels like this season had a lot.

    If you look at the base ratings, you will only see 48 8+ people. I say only, because if you compare this to the wb/jav leagues its ridicilous. Especially if you consider that Terrorist, Power and Brexit are together responsible for 28 of the people. And to make it more amazing, there are 60 7+ people. The chances you get play time as a 7 is ridicilous low as you can see. I am leaving out the fact that many of all those numbers didnt show at all.



    Something I would like to see is changing up the order of divisions that get played. Why do we have basing as last? We all know most of the europeans that are left do base, while of all the wbs 99% is north american or british. I would consider getting javs done first, then base and end with wbs. If I remember from TWL, most of the wb games got played at 5 pm. (when ppl actually scheduled it themself). While twlj got played at the 'early' hours.
    Besides that often I see specfreqs quite active on the wb/jav games, while on the base games many people logged off. Atleast that happened on Alf this season.. People tend to get bored if they have to stay in spec. I can totally understand they dont want to wait for 2 hours to finally get to play in base, especially if you arent even sure you will play. Get basing in the middle, because it's also the league that has the biggest chance of going out of time. I mean if a wb game starts at 5:10, you will still be done at 5:35. Especially around playoffs its much better in my opinion. WB and jav games are much faster.
    Major Crisis

  9. #49
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    And please get balanced caps next season.
    Dreamwin and Zidane both had a huge advantage, because they both already had a high star for both jav and base. While Ogron and Attacks only had one for a league.. Then we had Jessup which had none. And delectable had none either, cuz he didnt tend to play himself at all, he felt that was his duty as captain.
    With other words, DW and Zid were always a step ahead of the other teams. Attacks picked a great team, but Ogron and Jessup had the need of stacking one league from the beginning, because of the late picking places and the lack of being multishippers like both named guys.
    So either get 6 people of top level, or get 6 people from a decent level.
    Major Crisis

  10. #50
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    A few thoughts based on what MC said:
    - I agree MC got fucked by the star system, seems quite obvious and should have been adjusted.
    - The basing rosters tend to be colored to show what ship you play. I usually get colored green because I mostly spider. However... I'd say I'm an 8* terr and 7* shark, it would be good if that was displayed somehow.
    - I also would prefer if basing was not last. I would prefer wb last because that's the one I least care about.
    - I agree about balanced caps, Zid's team has an instant advantage over Jessup's team. I know we don't have the luxury of choosing caps, but maybe we can factor in the cap's rating somehow.

  11. #51
    Registered User Omega Red's Avatar
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    Rab has 100% correct.

    Rating players in basing based on ship would be more accurate. Basing should not be a blanket rating since we all know that every ship is 100% different and just cause you are an 8 star spider, doesn't mean you are a 8 star terrier.

    I'm aware that this will add some complexity to the ratings and drafting but this will benefit everybody overall and would allow captains to experiment more with their roster.

    I predict that this will eventually push more of the shitty "names" out of starting lineups but i think with accurate ship ratings, the level of play might only be slightly higher.

  12. #52
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    It adds complexity to the game too.
    Imagine I'm 8* spider and 7* shark. I get added as shark, as the only 7*. A switch could invalidate the lineup.

    I'd settle for just showing that I could also terr and shark, even if there's only one star rating overall.

  13. #53
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    to be fair i was begged to cap cause not enough people volunteered and I was last pick in Free agency while people got to pick Ease/24/lasenza/stayon. The top players in FA would have all been first round picks so this was a pretty big disadvantage.

    Not to mention I try to win all 3 leagues while half the caps stack 1 league.

    I do agree with major crisis if those #s are true then there was definitely too many 8* javs, however part of this is because jav is by far the most active league in tw and has been for at least 5-6 years. so if we lower a bunch of the 8s it will be a bunch of 7s fighting for 1 of 1 spot instead of fighting for 1 of 3.

    I think the best way to fix this is implementing ratings with decimals, so say like 6 or so people make the ratings and then it becomes their average.

    IE: Major crisis gets rated 7.7 in jav, and is allowed to jav in the 7* slot. this would make people who get rated like 7.9 op as hell and make the draft more interesting also

  14. #54
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    We could look into an overall star cap limit (per league). We'll see. I think centigrade or adding .5s is definitely happening, to improve ratings further.

    And you're giving Dreamwin too much credit, he has never gone for 3 leagues. He only goes for jav/base, and through an extraordinary set of circumstances, incredibly soft matchups, and no shows did he reach TWDT-D Final (look at his lines, they feature anywhere between 0-1 actual WBs and 4 euros on 4000 reso straying). He picked the same amount of WBs this year as he does every year except those circumstances didn't occur and he went 0-10 in TWDT-D.

    Zidane, Attacks, Hulk, Commodo, Ease and others have been more ambitious. I'm not criticizing him because I've never been overly ambitious myself, but he has not gone for 3 leagues ever, despite being a two-leaguer and consistently having great draft position.

    The rewards are bigger for those to dream big (double and triple crowns), but so is the fall (Power Triple Frown 2015).

    TBH I really like what Attacks has managed as a 1-leaguer. A bit lucky having Ease fall into his lap both FAs and rounding out his lines, but he has done some great work.

    I've tried to help those lesser caps by re-structuring the Free Agency draft with the 3-tier system, and it seems to have helped. Zidane and Dreamwin howled at the moon at their #5 and #6 FA draft positions and were unhappy with their haul, but they still managed to both make multiple finals, so I think it's an effective tool without robbing them of the chance to get the #1 or #2 pick in the main draft or their ability to triple crown. Jessup got 24 and Lasenza, Attacks got Ease, I got Spezza, and delectable got Stayon in the FA, which really helped bolster those teams and close the gap a bit between them and Zidane/Dreamwin.

    The ideal would be caps having to draft themselves, but probably not a realistic prospect at this point, and they've resisted it in the past.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Adjusting ratings mid-season is not going to happen.

    You're punishing captains for good picks, and screwing up their lineups that they've started through half the year.

    It's a bad idea that you guys have not thought through.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TSL looks at your actual ship in base in both sorting and rating, and the former will be adjusted mid-season. It's different because we're not punishing a team/captain by doing that.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's possible we could do is per-ship in TWDT-B in terms of ratings, but I'd have to discuss programming bots and it would be a huge overhaul. That is definitely in the MAYBE category. It would have to be the bot, because asking caps to keep track of 3 separate ratings per player mid-game during switches and changes and subs would be asking too much.

    100% bot dependent.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Base is last because the population is at it's smallest at 3pm EST, and grows to its largest at 5pm EST. It improves shows and the league, and reduces forfeits.

    You all seem to have extremely short memories -- TWDT used to be a rotating schedule, and every 3pm EST base game was dogshit and resulted in tons of forfeits. It was so bad in 2013 that K A N E had to run a poll and then changed it to a static schedule.

    That is not changing.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  15. #55
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    Just to be clear, I wasn't asking for per-ship ratings in base, I was asking for the color to not be only green when I can also terr and shark.
    I think the color influences what the captains pick you for, e.g. this season I mostly spidered but should have terred for ALF.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rab View Post
    Just to be clear, I wasn't asking for per-ship ratings in base, I was asking for the color to not be only green when I can also terr and shark.
    I think the color influences what the captains pick you for, e.g. this season I mostly spidered but should have terred for ALF.
    I dont think it influences much tbh, captains or ppl helping with draft/FA, should be able to know in what ships each player can be good in basing. This all stems to the captain quality thing, every captain should be a garanteed starter type player, usually with alot of years of twl.
    KESS let me down in mortars... damn puta!!! DOUBLE THE PUTA TIME!! ?go doublejavs -Cig <ER>

    SUH SUH G. SPAWNFEST TIME. calling out all muh boys ?go JAVUFC to play -Children <ER>

    1:cripple> i luv lbj cock
    1:cripple> if he paid me 50k for every time i gave him a bj i'd do it

  17. #57
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zidane View Post
    to be fair i was begged to cap cause not enough people volunteered and I was last pick in Free agency while people got to pick Ease/24/lasenza/stayon. The top players in FA would have all been first round picks so this was a pretty big disadvantage.

    Not to mention I try to win all 3 leagues while half the caps stack 1 league.

    I do agree with major crisis if those #s are true then there was definitely too many 8* javs, however part of this is because jav is by far the most active league in tw and has been for at least 5-6 years. so if we lower a bunch of the 8s it will be a bunch of 7s fighting for 1 of 1 spot instead of fighting for 1 of 3.

    I think the best way to fix this is implementing ratings with decimals, so say like 6 or so people make the ratings and then it becomes their average.

    IE: Major crisis gets rated 7.7 in jav, and is allowed to jav in the 7* slot. this would make people who get rated like 7.9 op as hell and make the draft more interesting also


    Stayon was a great pick indeed.
    Major Crisis

  18. #58
    anime master Turban's Avatar
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    there was a point in time where I secretly wished to take over and be in charge of ALF during the earlier parts of regular season in the hopes of salvaging our season. unfortunately our first pick in the free agency was wasted on a player who was known not to show after a week and that ended up being the final nail in the coffin.

    congratulations to all the winners nonetheless even though I did not enjoy the league format that was used this season.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Crisis View Post
    Stayon was a great pick indeed.
    KESS let me down in mortars... damn puta!!! DOUBLE THE PUTA TIME!! ?go doublejavs -Cig <ER>

    SUH SUH G. SPAWNFEST TIME. calling out all muh boys ?go JAVUFC to play -Children <ER>

    1:cripple> i luv lbj cock
    1:cripple> if he paid me 50k for every time i gave him a bj i'd do it

  20. #60
    Cows 4 magic beans! Attacks's Avatar
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    Can we not just do this, warbird/jav one 6 star one 7 star one 8 and two 9+, and for base one 6 two 7s one 8 and the rest 9-10s? Least then the 8s wont be left out? Seems simple to me maybe im not spotting something
    British> my 18th tomoz $$
    Sol ^> 18 and scouse, so that two kids you have by now, brit?

    i.d.> I just farted and shit myself alittle bit

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