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Thread: Real "Terrier" Statistics

  1. #1
    Registered User Pressure's Avatar
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    Real "Terrier" Statistics

    Since the current "TSLB Standings" designate players as a certain ship, and then include statistics that they have played in other ships into their ranking, they inaccurately represent player statistics. I know with time the money value ratings will improve, since you have to play more games for it to be accurate, but as it stands the "cumulative" stats negatively impact terr ratings. For example, Oder is considered a terr on the standings, but has a 39:65 K-D ratio. While I appreciate the hard work going into the league, and know that the value statistic will become more accurate with time as players play more games, I thought it would be cool to release the current real stats for this ship.

    Therefore, I took on the task of collecting players' statistics who are currently considered "terrs" on the TSLB standings. I separated their games played by ship to give a more accurate representation of the stats for players who have terred in TSL. This list excludes players like bellflowers and Raples and some others because, of course, no one gives a shit. I also did not look into the statistics of players who are listed as any other ship than terr (sorry Trasher, maybe I'll do yours later).

    Of course, some players have played more games than others, but the only difficulty I came across in logging the stats was for Oder, who had 2 games that I didn't know whether he spidered or sharked for the full game. Every other player stat is clean. I don't have time to accommodate for discrepancies in games played or other anomalies that may get picked out. Anyway, here are the current terr statistics ranked by K-D ratio​. I may consider updating these weekly, maybe not.

    EDIT: Time for/against is based in seconds, btw. So for example, 14.33 = 14 minutes 20 seconds since there's no other way to do it in excel based on minutes/seconds. Ignore the "Time for/against" for each individual game, and only consider the "Per Game" for that statistic.

    Last edited by Pressure; 07-01-2017 at 06:34 PM.
    4:Best> pressure was a terr for halloween 4:Best> guy had 4 dudes on him attached

    4:Siaxis> what time is it in zimbobwe para?

    4:Children> every morning i wake up, look in the mirror and thank god i'm not paradise

    4:Best> Mighty's forehead has wifi

    4:Mighty> u guys ever eat a ketchup sandwich?

    4:sphinx> mighty fought a raccoon in an alley for some bbq chips

    4:RaCka> so what if paradise is dressing up as a slim jim for halloween?

  2. #2
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    Kills and Teks just mean the terr prioritised getting them instead of someone else on their team getting them.
    The terr should prioritise terr priorities, NOT spider priorities.
    E.g. good placement, staying alive, shaping the entire game...

    I agree that measuring K : D is an improvement over the current ratings, but I think there's still something wrong with measuring kills at all.

    Regarding being designated a ship - is this really how it works? I'm forever complaining about being coloured green when I genuinely play 3 ships - whichever happens to be needed to complete the lineup we have. If I could pick one it would be terr.

    Last edited by Rab; 07-01-2017 at 08:09 PM.

  3. #3
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    Thinking about it a bit more, I think deaths/minute is the measurement that better reflects successful terring. Maybe there's scope for adding a small factor for kills or teks just to differentiate between players with similar d/min.




  4. #4
    who u Crescent Seal's Avatar
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    my boy posting his own stats to claim da throne

    #AlternativeFacts
    1:Rasaq> i scrub really hard with toilet paper so little pieces of it get stuck to my anus hair and then later on when im watching tv i like to pull them out slowly because it feels pretty good

    1:Mutalisk> heard that n1111ga okyo got some DSLs

    5:Eggboy32> easier is to pee in bucket and drop it on ur head and let it soak down

    Paradise> No names but there's actually a black man in the arena right now.

    Jones> MAAAAN1111GA UCHIHA

    Klean-X> because i am armenian
    wicket666> its american

  5. #5
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    Oh, we're posting terr stats? Fun!

    I wanna play too

    Don't think I've posted these anywhere before -- TWLB Terr Stats!







    TSL has begun! The Solo Q league will take place over the Summer. Teams are randomized every week, and you advance individually. It's a hyper-competitive league for veterans looking to clinch one of 10 playoff spots for themselves, while more casual players will benefit from everyone being added.

    Learn more here.


  6. #6
    Registered User Pressure's Avatar
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    Rab - cool idea regarding the deaths/min statistic. Your thoughts on what a terr should be doing show a clear deficiency in your understanding of the ship, though. But keeping do you, I love hunting shy terrs

    Oggy - Also interesting to see, but the second that I saw Cintra with one of the highest "aggro" ratings in history according to your stats, that entire safety/aggro feature lost credibility to me, regardless of how you respond to this post justifying them. That's a good example of how numbers on paper don't always match in-game reality. Doesn't matter how many spids were kills vs. sharks killed, or how many bullets were shot, or whatever you used to create the algorithm for the aggro/safety statistics. There are certain aspects of the game that simply cannot be quantified by statistics, and can only be objectively assessed by watching in-game. The rest is still cool to see lined up, brings back memories, thanks
    4:Best> pressure was a terr for halloween 4:Best> guy had 4 dudes on him attached

    4:Siaxis> what time is it in zimbobwe para?

    4:Children> every morning i wake up, look in the mirror and thank god i'm not paradise

    4:Best> Mighty's forehead has wifi

    4:Mighty> u guys ever eat a ketchup sandwich?

    4:sphinx> mighty fought a raccoon in an alley for some bbq chips

    4:RaCka> so what if paradise is dressing up as a slim jim for halloween?

  7. #7
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    Not arguing or disagreeing, just thought the scatterplot was cool
    TSL has begun! The Solo Q league will take place over the Summer. Teams are randomized every week, and you advance individually. It's a hyper-competitive league for veterans looking to clinch one of 10 playoff spots for themselves, while more casual players will benefit from everyone being added.

    Learn more here.


  8. #8
    ` Jones's Avatar
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    Thumbs up



    Quote Originally Posted by jerome
    can we stop and wonder in amazement at the fact that we play a VIDEO GAME that has "generations"???

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    WTF are you trying to say Jones lol

    You need a bigger res btw.

  10. #10
    anime master Turban's Avatar
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    1280x1024 windowed for life.

  11. #11
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    I think I should be put in terr more in TSL..... I can play the ship well yet am not given chances sigh. The one game I played in it I did as good as any other terr..

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    Go for it, but you're not even close to any of the terrs on these lists. Not to say you can't be with practice...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    I think I should be put in terr more in TSL..... I can play the ship well yet am not given chances sigh. The one game I played in it I did as good as any other terr..
    You should just step up more. Tbh terr definitely fits your style of play a lot better and I remember you killin it that game.

  14. #14
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    Could someone explain the terr value rating process to me??

    Code:
    Result of Freq 1 vs. Freq 2: 13:10 - 15:00   07 Jul 2017 01:27:59
    ,---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----.
    |                               K |    D |   TK |    Points |   FT |  TeK | RPD |    Rating | LO |
    |                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
    | Freq 1                  /   454 |  487 |   11 |     69724 |   19 |    7 | 579 |      1656 |  0 |
    +------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
    |  bellflowers                 97 |   68 |    0 |     12737 |    1 |    0 |     |       360 |  0 |
    |  GLYDE                       81 |   54 |    0 |     11999 |    0 |    0 |     |       302 |  0 |
    |  Invincible                  14 |  104 |   10 |      4932 |    1 |    1 | 2.8 |        16 |  0 |
    |  nowon                      117 |   60 |    0 |     15685 |    9 |    2 |     |       435 |  0 |
    |  Ogron                       37 |   12 |    0 |      8074 |    2 |    3 |     |       144 |  0 |
    |  WillBy                       7 |  107 |    1 |      3885 |    5 |    0 | 2.7 |        23 |  0 |
    |  yeH                        101 |   82 |    0 |     12412 |    1 |    1 |     |       376 |  0 |
    +---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
    |                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
    | Freq 2                  /   476 |  468 |   14 |     82218 |   20 |   12 | 601 |      2769 |  1 |
    +------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
    |  24                          12 |  100 |    3 |      4870 |   11 |    0 | 2.8 |       144 |  1 |
    |  bumpa                       87 |   58 |    0 |     14746 |    1 |    2 |     |       434 |  0 |
    |  Doughnut                   100 |   74 |    0 |     14498 |    2 |    1 |     |       482 |  0 |
    |  Ease                       128 |   60 |    0 |     20357 |    1 |    3 |     |       586 |  0 |
    |  Jessup                      26 |    7 |    0 |      5608 |    1 |    2 |     |       217 |  0 |
    |  Waz.                        99 |   60 |    0 |     16119 |    2 |    2 |     |       478 |  0 |
    |  zidane                      24 |  109 |   11 |      6020 |    2 |    2 | 2.9 |       428 |  0 |
    `---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----'
    Freq 2 wins this game!
    
    MVP: Ease!
    [/



    Jessup value = $16

    Ogron value = $22


    I thought wins gave a better overall value to each player on team?? Shouldn't lower number of deaths terrs get also reflect bonuses.. I searched thread on value rating system and can't seem to find how this rating system works. Something appears messed up here to me ...

  15. #15
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    It's because he got 37 kills and you got 26. This is what I've been saying the whole time. Your score was better. You should have got more value.

  16. #16
    who u Crescent Seal's Avatar
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    I think its because you got penalized for not hitting 30 kills. Its a pretty bogus rule imo because it discourages newbs from even trying terrier.
    1:Rasaq> i scrub really hard with toilet paper so little pieces of it get stuck to my anus hair and then later on when im watching tv i like to pull them out slowly because it feels pretty good

    1:Mutalisk> heard that n1111ga okyo got some DSLs

    5:Eggboy32> easier is to pee in bucket and drop it on ur head and let it soak down

    Paradise> No names but there's actually a black man in the arena right now.

    Jones> MAAAAN1111GA UCHIHA

    Klean-X> because i am armenian
    wicket666> its american

  17. #17
    Registered User Pressure's Avatar
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    4:Best> pressure was a terr for halloween 4:Best> guy had 4 dudes on him attached

    4:Siaxis> what time is it in zimbobwe para?

    4:Children> every morning i wake up, look in the mirror and thank god i'm not paradise

    4:Best> Mighty's forehead has wifi

    4:Mighty> u guys ever eat a ketchup sandwich?

    4:sphinx> mighty fought a raccoon in an alley for some bbq chips

    4:RaCka> so what if paradise is dressing up as a slim jim for halloween?

  18. #18
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    The amount of kills a terr gets shouldn't really be that huge a factor as a terrs job first and foremost is to position safely for the team and give non DOA attach drops and of course avoid being killed. It seems silly to give so much emphasis on kills. It's akin to penalizing a shark for deaths lol..... Terr TEK bonuses I can support as skilled bursts def are an important part of a terrs job in base but this game is a clear example of something awry in the value rating system.... plus where are my bonuses for winning the match in my score/value ??? I fail to see any bonus listed at all here.

  19. #19
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    I've already explained terrier, and ONLY terrier... at the start of the season... in these forums. I wrote the response to these inquiries almost a month ago because I know people like Henry Saari and Rab exist, and would start posting my boxscores.

    Quote Originally Posted by Claushouse View Post
    Like Kess mentioned, we're not publishing the inner workings for obvious reasons.

    The only exception I would consider is in terr, since I'm writing the formulas and I terr, if there is close competition in that ship, and it's one of the more difficult positions to grade, in the interest of transparency. I could see a situation where there's a race between myself, Pressure, Mikkiz for the lone 2 spots in the Finals for terr, where Thix would raise a red flag of suspicion over the math.

    Terr:

    =((KPG/4)+(IF(KDA>15,15,KDA))*1)+(Teks*2)+(TeamScore)

    The current formula is Kills Per Game (more accurately, your kills had the game gone the full 30 minutes) divided by 4, plus your KDA (capped at 15), plus Teks multiplied by two, plus TeamScore (how well your team did, this is unified across all ships and leagues, and not being published).

    I think you'll find the formulas fairly robust and difficult to game or abuse.

    Again, I reserve the right to modify the formulas over the first two weeks to make sure they pass the eye test.

    Quote Originally Posted by Claushouse View Post
    Stats updated for Wednesday.

    -Buffed Spider KPG value to bring them more in line with other ships
    -Fixed a Shark formula error
    -Terr formula now penalizes hiding all game with good KDA to rec


    Spidering should now bring in roughly the same rewards as other ships. Will continue to tweak it until balanced.

    Terrs who average less than 30 kills per 30 minutes will now see value penalties to their GameScore. This is an extremely low bar, and only 3 terrs have managed to go under it (Henry Saari, bellflowers (2x), and porkjet). For every kill below 30 (remember, your kills are prorated as if it were a full 30 minute game) 2$ will be taken off your score.

    Henry Saari (17-2, prorated to 27 kills)
    Porkjet (17-7, prorated to 22 kills)
    Bellflowers (15-3, prorated to 21 kills)
    Bellflowers (26-10, prorated to 28 kills)

    Every other ship is tasked with carrying their own weight, and Terr should be no different. Major Crisis, Turban, Trasher, Ogron, Cape, Rab, dreamwin, and Kess have all averaged between 36-80 KPG, so 30 KPG is not an ambitious target.

    I have not touched the WB or Jav formulas ever, they work fantastic.

    I tinkered with the basing formulas and locked them in Week 2.


    The terring formula is:

    =(((H871/2.6)+(IF((B871/C871)>10,10,(B871/C871)))*1)+(E871*3)+(IF((SUM(B874:B878))<(SUM(B883 :B887)),((SUM(B883:B887))-(SUM(B874:B878)))/12,0))+IF(H871<30,(30-H871)*-2,0))-C871+K871

    =(((KPG/2.6)+(IF((Kills/Deaths)>10,10,(Kills/Deaths)))*1)+(Teks*3)+(IF((SUM(FriendlySpiderKills1:FriendlySpiderKi lls5))<(SUM(EnemySpiderKills1:EnemySpiderKills5)), ((SUM(EnemySpiderKills1:EnemySpiderKills5))-(SUM(FriendlySpiderKills1:FriendlySpiderKills5)))/12,0))+IF(KPG<30,(30-KPG)*-2,0))-Deaths+TeamScore


    You can imagine that in a 15:00-14:59 game, the team win/time bonuses are fairly negligible between the two terriers, then factor in I had more kills, better KDA, 2 teks to your 0, and my spiders got outkilled, giving me further bonuses for playing on a team that got outkilled. When you figure that I got 6$ in Teks alone more than you, it's not hard to imagine more kills on a team with spiders that got outkilled adds up to the extra 4-5$, accounting for the 30$ to 20$ difference.

    As for your 11-0 hiding all game doing nothing on a significantly better team, that has already been explained in detail in previous posts. The formula is not going to reward hiding DNBs.

    Your 11 kills are prorated to 20.6 KPG, costing you -2$ for every kill below 30 KPG.

    I've been extremely transparent about terr scores, the formula has been set for weeks, and hope this will satisfy your curiosity.
    Basing statistics are never going to be perfect. Teks outside the FlagRoom should not be worth as much (flinging a piece of shrap and costing the enemy team 15 seconds does not hold the same value as getting a crucial tek in a 50/50 FR fight), but for the purposes of TSL they have the same value.

    That said, the formulas are geared towards action, and doing things that are measurable. Offense is measurable. Winning is measurable. Winning games or losing in a close game is worth much more than losing in a blowout.

    KDA is not factored in spidering, only your kills are, so camping serves no purpose and is therefore dis-incentivized. Hiding all game in terr is dis-incentivized. I've done my best to simply make the formulas invisible and reward playing aggressively, and playing to win. Camping and hiding are not going to be rewarded in TSL.
    TSL has begun! The Solo Q league will take place over the Summer. Teams are randomized every week, and you advance individually. It's a hyper-competitive league for veterans looking to clinch one of 10 playoff spots for themselves, while more casual players will benefit from everyone being added.

    Learn more here.


  20. #20
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    This is the absolute last time I respond about the terring formula.

    You have less kills, less teks, and your spiders outkilled mine... these all give me extra value. Your "win" bonuses relative to mine are minor, since my team got 13 minutes.

    The formula is doing its job. You were absolutely atrocious in that game, and the only reason we got 13 minutes was due to your play in terrier. If anyone else was in, we would have lost 15-2.

    The formula is guessing that you only got 26 kills, less teks, and while on the better team, and not giving you lots of $$$, and assuming you're not a good terr and did not play well, which is absolutely correct.

    I want to congratulate an inane Excel formula I wrote weeks ago on not rewarding bad play.

    It also only gave Rab 15$ for his do-nothing 11-0, which is spectacular. And yet, it keeps giving out tons of money to Trasher, Cape and Thix -- three of the best terriers in the game. Even in losses! It's almost as if the formula was written by someone who actually terrs, and is pretty good (albeit not perfect) at rewarding quality play, and not just sitting there on a significantly better team with no pressure and doing nothing as you accumulate burst kills and finish 21-3 in a 30 minute game.
    TSL has begun! The Solo Q league will take place over the Summer. Teams are randomized every week, and you advance individually. It's a hyper-competitive league for veterans looking to clinch one of 10 playoff spots for themselves, while more casual players will benefit from everyone being added.

    Learn more here.


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