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Thread: TSL Season 2 Improvements Currently In The Works

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  1. #1
    House Targaryen Claushouse's Avatar
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    TSL Season 2 Improvements Currently In The Works

    1. Automating everything to a website

    This is the big one, and will make TSL sustainable and no longer require a Ph. D in Excel to run. I sent Qan my files, and he is doing all the work. Pray for him!

    2. Automating MMR for TSLD and TSLD

    I've come up with a way to automate your matchmaking rating in the bot for those two leagues as it is relatively straightforward. It scores a 0.86 Pearson Correlation Coefficient in relation to the current subjective MMR ratings, which is fantastic. After 15-20 games in WB or Jav it will switch from your old MMR to your new MMR based entirely on your statistical performance.

    3. New and Improved TSLB Matchmaking

    The automated MMR won't be making its way to TSLB sadly, as it is too complex and interdependent, but we will be designing a completely new and much better TSLB Matchmaking system. I already have it done in my head, and will write it down soon and send it over to Qan for codification sometime soon.

    4. Allowing basers to retire from 1 Ship and lowering their MMR accordingly with a !retire 3/5/8 feature to TSLBot

    I'm strongly considering this feature. Porkjet didn't want to shark last season, and I've been wanting to switch back to Spidering for awhile, and others may want to play other ships and give newer players a chance in those spots. You would basically type !retire 8 to retire from Shark, and it would put your MMR to your 2nd best ship, likely lowering your MMR and not hurting your team by not playing your main ship. This would make you ineligible to be changed or switched into shark until you !unretire. Either Qan makes it so that the bot doesn't let you play that ship, or more likely if someone switches you, just sit in spawn and calmly explain you're not eligible to play that ship and you were selected with lower MMR due to it.

    I'm not 100% on this, but it's definitely worth consideration. It's also worth consideration for TWDT, enabling you to get picked lower to play a different ship.

    5. If you have any feedback or suggestions, please post them here

    TSL Season 2 is coming up fast, as is TWDT, so if you have any ideas or suggestions, let us know!
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    2gron> turb's name IRL is tellixador icantshow
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  2. #2
    Registered User Omega Red's Avatar
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    The Retire function seems like a good idea, with a couple of concerns. :

    Lower quality in overall base experience since people will most likely be learning or adapting to new ships (probably temporary)

    More mad terriers/spiders due to shitty sharks

    I like the idea though

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    Please share with us the tslb matchmaking when you've written down. I wonder how it differs from what I wrote.

  4. #4
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    It would be nice if the value stuff would be a little more fair.
    With 80 games played you have much bigger chance of having 20 good games, than when you played 25 games.
    With all due respect Ogron, but you were only this high in the jav rating because you played a lot. Half your games are for example $15 or lower. (36 out of 73)
    Skyforger was rated 15th, he has an overall rec which is -68. He even had 48 out 65 which were $15 or lower..

    Play time seems to put you high in the list. I am not saying we shouldnt reward play time, I think we should. But it should be done in a more fair way.
    If I played all games avaible on my time slots (I dont count my injury and server down, neither the bonus rounds which mostly were too late too).
    It would be 7 weeks, 4 games each league.
    This means 28 games in a league, I hope you see the advantage you have if you can show any or most time slots.
    Major Crisis

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    /agree with MC

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    What if the 20 first games played get some sort of bonus? First 20 games get +5$ for example, after that no bonus. That way the disparity between players with thousands of games and players with barely 20 gets diminished a bit.
    The 5$ was just an example, would be worked on a bit better.

    Could also make the scheduled games worth more than bonus games. Alot of ppl work/have families and cant stay online for more than 1/2 hours for the bonus games.

    Just a couple of ideas


    Edit:

    Regarding OP, automation will make the whole experience way more fluid.Hopefully starting and setting up the games will be faster too.
    I like the retire idea, i would have liked to terr some games.
    And dynamic MMR that adapts to your performances should in theory make the teams more even. There were alot of under/over performers during tsl.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    I'm making a valid point .. stfu kess
    xD ur awful. no one cares about your opinion.

  8. #8
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claushouse;907003[B
    3. New and Improved TSLB Matchmaking[/B]

    The automated MMR won't be making its way to TSLB sadly, as it is too complex and interdependent, but we will be designing a completely new and much better TSLB Matchmaking system. I already have it done in my head, and will write it down soon and send it over to Qan for codification sometime soon.[B]

    This is completely vague to me ... please elaborate on how it will be better and what "I already have it done in my head." means.

    I'd really like a response from you or qan about if TSLB will nullify prefered adding in base and eliminate the 100% chance for certain players while giving close to 0% add rates to others. Is this going to be imposed on us this season??? .. or will it be changed to equal chances for all??

  9. #9
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    If the last surviving league (TSL) is going to only benefit Americans, Canadians and South Americans and then there's no use for the euro community. We need to cater for all and have the leagues running so that every person can have a fair shot at qualifying.

    it was virtually impossible to reach last TSL qualifying expectations, as I work shit work, on somedays I was working during the 'Euro day'. And when I wasn't working, euros would have their time slots, but then TSL was continuously ran for the Americans, doing constant bonus rounds. So, not only was you guys having your days and time slots but you was taking over the euro day. Originally it was supposed to be 3 games per day mid week and Sunday 6 games, but then the bonus rounds went in favour for Americans, as we was not able to stay until daft o clock to get the extra games in.

    TSL was created for activity and also for players who could not commit to just Sunday's. it was a flexible league. So improve on this and make the time slots longer, so that it's more flexiable for Euros too.
    Last edited by Vys; 08-14-2017 at 08:27 AM. Reason: added more detail
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  10. #10
    Registered User Trasher's Avatar
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    Agreed with Rab, Major, Vys etc., the games should start earlier to accommodate people outside of NA timezones - not that I personally have had much of a problem with that...

    Jessup is also right. Everyone should have an equal chance to play base. If the same people keep getting benched over and over again, that undermines what this league should be, and only serves to drive potential "new" players away. Some elitists would surely prefer to only play with the same old basers and not have to tolerate anyone who has a slightly higher propensity for making mistakes, of course. It's a shame most of the time there aren't enough people for 2 base games, resulting in a bunch of frustrated benchers.

    I think the system of determining your value based on your best 20 games is fine, as long as the games start earlier. The whole point of it is to increase activity, something that this game desperately needs to maintain the illusion of still being alive.
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  11. #11
    House Targaryen Claushouse's Avatar
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    It's not an ego trip, don't use me as an example, then. Saying I only qualified because I played 70 games is patently false and stupid. You're calling me out and using me specifically to try to prove your point.

    I would have qualified in 30, 30 and 40 games in all three leagues, so following up Major's point by also citing myself makes perfect sense in terms of formulating a response. I'm not a great jav, I never have been, and I never will be. But I balled the fuck out the second half of the season and put up serious numbers, so telling me I didn't earn my spot and didn't put work in to dramatically improve in my weakest ship is pretty shitty.

    I am working on expanding Euro time slots and helping you guys. Attacking me and players who are active is not the solution.

    I've already said I want to expand starting games at Euro hours on Weekdays to either two or all three days, and starting Sundays 2 hour earlier during TWDT to get some extra games in for Euros. I think we can sandwich TWDT, which runs 3:00pm-5:00pm EST, between TSL games on Sundays, with TSL running 12-3pm EST, then 6-8pm EST afterwards.

    It's also worth noting these things don't happen in a complete vacuum. I can't just snap my fingers and make more timeslots appear, I have to consult with Qan and Beasty and it requires hosts to show up. We're trying to automate everything and get to a point where these things aren't an issue.

    One of my goals is definitely to improve Euros ability to qualify and play going forward. What I would ideally like to see:

    Sundays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLD -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLJ -- 4:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 4:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 5:00pm EST
    TSLB -- 5:30pm EST

    TWDT Sundays:

    TSLD -- 12:00pm EST
    TSLD -- 12:30pm EST
    TSLJ -- 1:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 1:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 2:00pm EST
    TSLB -- 2:30pm EST

    TSLD -- 6:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 6:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 7:00pm EST

    Tuesdays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST

    Wednesdays:


    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST

    Thursdays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST

    With bonus games running after each session.
    2:RaCka> I wonder what turban's real name is
    2gron> turb's name IRL is tellixador icantshow
    2:RaCka> LOL
    2:Heaven> LOl

    Ogron> what's your showrate, i got the next FA pick
    24> i can only show Week 2

  12. #12
    Registered User Ixador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claushouse View Post
    It's not an ego trip, don't use me as an example, then. Saying I only qualified because I played 70 games is patently false and stupid. You're calling me out and using me specifically to try to prove your point.

    I would have qualified in 30, 30 and 40 games in all three leagues, so following up Major's point by also citing myself makes perfect sense in terms of formulating a response. I'm not a great jav, I never have been, and I never will be. But I balled the fuck out the second half of the season and put up serious numbers, so telling me I didn't earn my spot and didn't put work in to dramatically improve in my weakest ship is pretty shitty.

    I am working on expanding Euro time slots and helping you guys. Attacking me and players who are active is not the solution.

    I've already said I want to expand starting games at Euro hours on Weekdays to either two or all three days, and starting Sundays 2 hour earlier during TWDT to get some extra games in for Euros. I think we can sandwich TWDT, which runs 3:00pm-5:00pm EST, between TSL games on Sundays, with TSL running 12-3pm EST, then 6-8pm EST afterwards.

    It's also worth noting these things don't happen in a complete vacuum. I can't just snap my fingers and make more timeslots appear, I have to consult with Qan and Beasty and it requires hosts to show up. We're trying to automate everything and get to a point where these things aren't an issue.

    One of my goals is definitely to improve Euros ability to qualify and play going forward. What I would ideally like to see:

    Sundays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLD -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLJ -- 4:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 4:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 5:00pm EST
    TSLB -- 5:30pm EST

    TWDT Sundays:

    TSLD -- 12:00pm EST
    TSLD -- 12:30pm EST
    TSLJ -- 1:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 1:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 2:00pm EST
    TSLB -- 2:30pm EST

    TSLD -- 6:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 6:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 7:00pm EST

    Tuesdays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST

    Wednesdays:


    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST

    Thursdays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST

    With bonus games running after each session.
    These time slots are still awful for West Coast American players. The only feasible time slot for us is on Sunday at 7 which is basing, being that is 4-5pm our time. For those of who work, these times are way too early. I barely got 19 games over a season because of this on top of the fact that during those times, I play like garbage (glares/hangovers/distractions). If these stay as they are, I won't be participating. I'd rather see TWD come back so we all can game when we all want to. I was very disappointed in this last TSL and from what it looks like, I will be with the upcoming. Top it off, on days I could show, I rode bench 9/10 times after waiting upwards of an hour. It was frustrating. Anyways, that's my two cents. See you.

    -Ixador

  13. #13
    Registered User olde's Avatar
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    Hell yeah man you made all-star on a game with 30 players!!

  14. #14
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    ? I'm guessing most of the first part of your last post was aimed at Major? Because all I said was that you're better than that for turning it into a slanging match with Major, not anything about you making the all star games.

    I always appreciate the effort you put in - if we can manage to get more Euro friendly time slots in then that would be a great help.
    Last edited by Ricko; 08-14-2017 at 11:22 AM.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Trasher's Avatar
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    Settle down, Dicko.
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    JAMAL> laggy no skill nebwie
    JuanJuan> you a fucking lagass cheater
    mAZe Of tOrM> try more faggot
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    Shadowmere> Nice lag you fagf

  16. #16
    House Targaryen Claushouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
    ? I'm guessing most of the first part of your last post was aimed at Major? Because all I said was that you're better than that for turning it into a slanging match with Major, not anything about you making the all star games.

    I always appreciate the effort you put in - if we can manage to get more Euro friendly time slots in then that would be a great help.
    Yes, I was responding to Major.
    2:RaCka> I wonder what turban's real name is
    2gron> turb's name IRL is tellixador icantshow
    2:RaCka> LOL
    2:Heaven> LOl

    Ogron> what's your showrate, i got the next FA pick
    24> i can only show Week 2

  17. #17
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    Saturdays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLD -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLJ -- 4:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 4:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 5:00pm EST
    TSLB -- 5:30pm EST

    TWDT Sundays:

    TWDTD -- 3:00pm EST
    TWDTD -- 3:30pm EST
    TWDTJ -- 4:00pm EST
    TWDTJ -- 4:30pm EST
    TWDTB -- 5:00pm EST
    TWDTB -- 5:30pm EST

    Mondays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST
    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)


    TSLD -- 8:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 8:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 9:00pm EST

    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)



    Tuesdays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST
    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)


    TSLD -- 8:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 8:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 9:00pm EST

    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)

    Wednesdays:


    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST
    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)


    TSLD -- 8:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 8:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 9:00pm EST

    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)

    Thursdays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST
    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)


    TSLD -- 8:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 8:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 9:00pm EST

    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)


    Fridays:

    TSLD -- 3:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 3:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 4:00pm EST
    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)


    TSLD -- 8:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 8:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 9:00pm EST

    Bonus rounds (1 of each league played, no more)



    I propose using these days and times, this way euros have a chance of making qualifying, promoting monday - saturday gaming TSL and having Sunday just for TWDTD. Do no more than the bonus rounds has suggested. If people want to play and then <ER>'s need to step up and use this time to host something, or get squads to be playing TWD.
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  18. #18
    Registered User Ixador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vys View Post


    TSLD -- 8:00pm EST
    TSLJ -- 8:30pm EST
    TSLB -- 9:00pm EST
    Love these times Vys. It would be ideal for both Euros and even for yanks like myself who can't get playtime until after 5-6pm US Pacific Time. Honestly, 10PM or later would work great too but regardless I love the 8-9pm times. Nice work.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixador View Post
    Love these times Vys. It would be ideal for both Euros and even for yanks like myself who can't get playtime until after 5-6pm US Pacific Time. Honestly, 10PM or later would work great too but regardless I love the 8-9pm times. Nice work.
    Yeah, these hours are great for euros. Who doesnt love some great TSL gaming at 1/2 am during the week? Hell, make it later =D

  20. #20
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kess View Post
    Yeah, these hours are great for euros. Who doesnt love some great TSL gaming at 1/2 am during the week? Hell, make it later =D
    that's why you play the 3-4pm games you silly billy
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