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Thread: FORMULA DISCUSSION

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  1. #1
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    FORMULA DISCUSSION

    FORMULA DISCUSSION

    Some facts:
    - The bot calculates the scores.
    - The bot is developed by qan.
    - qan used formulas provided by Ogron.
    - I have never seen the formulas.
    - People keep sending me questions about whether dollar values are correct.
    - I'm starting to think we should make new formulas that are: easier to understand why you got the score you got; simpler and therefore less error prone.
    - I think the current formulas should be made public.

    My observations as a player:
    - Jav/Wb: it's very harsh when your dollar value is lower than your Kills.
    - Jav/Wb: there should be more correlation between kills and dollar value. I think there's a win bonus skewing things based on how close the result is.
    - Jav: TKing is severely punished, some TKing is unavoidable. (if someone catches your bomb it's not your fault.)
    - Terr: generally OK.
    - Shark: it's near impossible to get a good score unless you win.
    - Shark: TeKs are too highly rewarded, and encourages TKing which...
    - Shark: TKing is severely punished, some TKing is unavoidable.
    - Shark: RPD is the most important stat IMO and this doesn't seem so important based on current scores.
    - Spider: the win bonus is much too big. an elite spider on the losing team gets a similar score to a trash spider on the winning team.
    - We don't want the situation where you must win 20 games to qualify (i.e. if you win half the time, you need to play 40 games).


    It's easy to complain about formulas, but how many people are actually prepared to try and make better ones?

    Well, I decided to try...


    WARBIRD / JAV

    MAX(0, ((K-TK)*2) ) + (WIN ? 5 : 0)

    Notes:
    - Dollar value should never be less than $0.
    - The main part of the score is based on Kills (with TKs removed in Jav) multiplied by 2.
    E.g. 5 kills = $10, 10 kills = $20, 15 kills = $30, 20 kills with 5 TKs = $30.
    - Plus a bonus of $5 if you win the game.


    BASE

    Notes:
    - Dollar value should never be less than $0.
    - Each ship has it's own formula, providing a range from $0 (trash performance) to $30 (elite performance).
    - Each ship score is comparable, so multi-ship doesn't favor some ships over others.
    - Every ship gets $3 per TeK.
    - Every ship gets $5 if you win the game.

    TERR

    MAX(0, MIN(30, (1-(D/TP))*30 ) ) + (TeK*3) + (WIN ? 5 : 0)

    Notes:
    - The main part of the score is based on deaths per minute.
    E.g. in a 20 minute game: 1 death = $28; 7 deaths = $19; 15 deaths = $7.

    SHARK

    MAX(0, MIN(30, (RPD-2)*30 ) ) + (TeK*3) + (WIN ? 5 : 0)

    Notes:
    - The main part of the score is based on RPD.
    E.g. RPD 3.0 = $30; RPD 2.7 = $21; RPD 2.4 = $12.

    SPIDER

    MAX(0, MIN(30, ((((30*60)/TP)*K)/120)*30 ) ) + (TeK*3) + (WIN ? 5 : 0)

    Notes:
    - Kills are pro-rated up to 30 minutes, so you aren't forced to make it a longer game to get more kills.
    - Camping is not rewarded.
    - The main part of the score is based on Kills.
    E.g. in a 22 minute game, 100 kills = $30; 75 kills = $25; 50 kills = $17.
    Last edited by Rab; 09-23-2017 at 11:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Registered User Ixador's Avatar
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    Looks great, I know I appreciate the time you took to lay out a simple formula for us and put great emphasis on whatever formula they decide to use to make it known public. I do have a few gripes with your formula, so I will get right to it.

    WB - I would like to see $ not only for getting kills, but WHO you kill. If Iron Survivor (Rated 10 for this instance) kills IxaDor (Rated 5 for this instance) he only gets $2 (example $ for this instance). Now if IxaDor kills Iron Survivor, IxaDor gets $2 PLUS 2 times the deficit in his skill to Iron Survivors skill, making it $12 (example $ for this instance, 2x Deficit is likely way too much). So an under skilled player gets more when killing a skilled player. This also helps prevent players (not going to name names) from going after players they know are weaker to pad scores in hopes for less blowouts matches and some added fairness to this "all inclusive" league. This would have to use ratings of some kind though and as you brought up in another thread, a way to implement new ratings every season would be a must for this to be fair and I hope they do it regardless of this thread post, static/mysterious ratings aren't fair to up and coming players or those who trained with new ships since.

    JAV- Looks pretty good just one thing I see is that TK's should be punished, though not as harshly as it is now that I agree. Already this season some people (not naming names) tk'd me just to tk me because they don't like me (lol.) and it was nice to have the punishment attached of them losing $. Removing it or near removing it (as you have suggested here) worries me. I just think taking it down a peg or two would do. I just want fair competition, in all leagues.

    BASE - Like your idea for Shark and Terrier, well done. Spider though I do not like at all honestly as I think it would encourage people to "pad kills" verse play as a team and go for the objective. The amount of kills you have to have for decent money in spider is also worrisome. 100 kills for $30? I can think of a handful of current spids who can do this, majority of them are lucky to go over 50. Spider is already punishment for many of us because 90% of the current basers are forced to play in this ship while "pro's" get to play in Terrier/Shark. I am not sure what the best way to go about this but your current proposal to me seems way to extreme.

    Other than that, I am happy. Just really happy someone is trying to make things transparent here because already the money you earn from matches has been incredibly inconsistent, for instance in wb week 1 I was 9-10 and this week I go 10-10 but I made more money for the 9-10 (something like $4 more) and both those games were losses, so it wasn't a win bonus either. I would, like yourself, be very interested to know exactly what is going on here with these formulas and ratings that unfortunately dictate the outcome of the game based on your performance. Anyways, a pleasure as always Rab, glad to have you here offering up more ideas for us to discuss and think about. Even if nothing comes of it, I think it's great for the zone and these leagues to always be looking at perfecting them. Take care my friend.

    -IxaDor

  3. #3
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    Bumping to see if more people want to comment on this.
    I think TSLB scores for terr and shark are measuring the wrong things, the spider scores are the only ones that make any sense.
    I'd like to see them changed for next season.
    It should be done in such a way that the scores are comparable between ships, and then using Overall for qualification purposes, so people feel free to play any ship without their qualification suffering.

  4. #4
    Leland
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    thank you
    Leland

  5. #5
    zeebu 'DUMPTRUCK' johnson Zeebu's Avatar
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    in wb and jav its a good start but not all kills should be weighted evenly. killing a person that sucks should be worth less than killing someone who is good. base it on the rating when entering the game to avoid any circular references and stuff and there you go.

    im not sure how to give a weighted system to base


    1996 Minnesota State Pooping Champion

  6. #6
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    I agree about points per kill in jav and wb being rating-based. It already is implemented that way, so we can leave it alone - I'm mainly talking about base now. I don't see any need for weighting in base.

    I know the spider kills-per-minute looks high but it isn't. The rate of 120 kills per 30 minute (4 kpm) does represent a strong round for a spider. That's about what spiders like skyforger and Henry get. cripple can get 5+ kpm.

    The way the spider kpm formula works is it calculates your kpm as a fraction of the 4kpm target, then multiplies $30 by that. So if you get 4kpm ($30*1.0) you get $30. If you get 2kpm ($30*0.5) you get $15. Then your TeK and Win bonuses are added to that.

    The dollar value of the Spider kpm component is capped at $30 to remain comparable with Terr (where 0 deaths gets you $30) and Shark (where 3.0 rpd gets you $30). If the Spider kpm target is too low then too many players would hit the cap, and if everyone's routinely hitting $30 it doesn't help differentiate good players from bad. If the Spider kpm target is too high then good spider scores are too low compared to good terr and shark scores.

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