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Thread: TSL on Mondays?

  1. #1
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    TSL on Mondays?

    Wiibimbo posted this in a moderator thread, and gave me permission to repost it here to get feedback from the community, along with my response.


    Quote Originally Posted by mtine View Post
    Hey guys,

    so as you might have heard we came to a proposition on how to do things on TSL off-days. We could maybe still be able to host if there is enough players interested to participate, but at the same time let them know that the games on off-days don't count the same as those on scheduled days.

    Proposition:

    Off-days games are only valid if we get 20+ players to participate. (number can be changed accordingly)
    Off-days games count 50% of normal, scheduled game. (if you get 20$ on off-days, only 10$ counts)
    Off-days games can have a limit or not. (for example, we let the players aware on forums that TSL starts on an off-day, let's say at 3pm, and then we can do 1/1/1 round or maybe go some other way, depending on what players want to do or play)

    Other ideas are always welcome. Please discuss.

    That sounds very complicated. I think it would be very difficult to code those values, and I would much prefer time/effort spent on some other coding matters such as matchmaking.

    I think perhaps a simpler solution would be discussing whether or not to have TSL on Mondays.

    There are fundamental issues that led to the decision to have TSL be 4 days a week, with two breaks per week (Monday & Friday/Saturday):


    1) Player Burnout

    Even running 4 days a week, a lot of players suffered burnout. They wanted TSL to be over with, they played too much, their competitive desire and not wanting to fall behind was ultimately detrimental to them remaining consistent, long-term TSL players.

    2) Host Burnout

    Qan has had concerns about adding more times/slots and burning out hosts

    3) Unfair to certain players

    Unscheduled games can feel unfair to those who don't read forums or weren't aware or made plans on an off-day

    4) Widening the gap

    The gap is already wide between super-active players who play 50-60-70 games, and the average player who play 20-30 games. This would only further it, and it can help alienate players who feel like they have even less of a chance of qualifying

    Final Thoughts

    I am personally fine with adding scheduled Monday games to TSL (6pm EDT slot, not another 3pm EDT euro slot), but I have legitimate concerns about how it would impact players, hosts, and the league in general. Ignoring my personal stance on it (I like playing TSL, the more the better), as league-runner my feeling is that it might be a bad idea, and be detrimental to the league. People love cake, but if you eat too much of it too often, it can ruin it.

    I am 100% not okay with "unscheduled" TSL games on off-days. Players need to know in advance when TSL is occurring. Bonus games aren't unscheduled -- everyone knows they occur after scheduled games. Henry likes to start hosting early sometimes -- it's pretty well known and while I guess it's "unscheduled", it's typically 1 hour beforehand not a big enough deal for me to fuss over. It's still a scheduled day, and most players know that often happens.

    If the majority of players and hosts, after considering all these concerns, favor adding Monday to the schedule, I will add it.

  2. #2
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    We already have alot of unscheduled games inflating super active players values, we dont need more games on off days. I know activity is very important, and TSL is all we have left, but shouldnt we also encourage quality gameplay? I feel the more games get played the shittier they get. I tend not to play too many unschedules games because usually they are awful due to horrible teams. I rather play less games, but actually have fun in them and feel like im competing a bit.

    Is there actually that many people who want to play this game every single day? I mean, we already have games 4 out of the 7 days of the week and we are used to only having league games on sundays in the past.
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  3. #3
    wiibimbo mtine's Avatar
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    This is not meant to be a full time feature every Monday, just an experiment to see what people think about it. It's basically meant to see if for next TSL season we can host on off-days (just Monday, since Friday and Saturday is free day for us too), but not every Monday, only like every 2nd or 3rd or maybe 2-3 times per whole TSL season. If it does get accepted by the majority, we can schedule it in advance and then use 100%, since Ogron says it's hard to do $ for 50% or anything in between. Just posted this so that players can voice their opinions.
    "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
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  4. #4
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    Its up to hosts, I don't have any issues with the other concerns, widening the gap (the gap is huge anyways)/unfair(LOL REALLY? This isn't meant to be fair)/Player burnout (dont play?). Its better to have ppl play than have ppl not play so I definately support Monday hosting IF hosts can handle it. This said I wont show up to games on mondays anyways .

  5. #5
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    the more tsl the better. because there should always be something to do outside pub. twd and elims are dead, tsl somehow draws a crowd. for all i care the ratings for odd time hosts may not count, but that might kill the motivation to play for a portion of players.

  6. #6
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    So we want games of base, javs, and wb. But we don't want them to count towards TSL scores.

    ?go base
    ?go javduel
    ?go wbduel

    It's not even April 1st. ppl high or something.

  7. #7
    Big Ego kentaro's Avatar
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    isn't there already like 4 or 5 days of twsl a week? Do people really need to play this more regularly than a full time job???

    That being said, tsl is pretty much the new twd... most top players already seem to have slowed down activity wise
    Last edited by kentaro; 10-12-2017 at 08:55 AM.
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  8. #8
    House Baratheon Claushouse's Avatar
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    We'll give it a few more days, but I'm really not seeing a massive outcry for Monday TSL atm.

    As to what TSL is, I always see people "defining" it. None of those definitions need to be mutually exclusive. It can promote activity, be competitive for top tier players, help veterans expand their ship-list, teach new players how to play -- it can be all of those things in moderation.

    Just because a lot of games are played, doesn't mean it can't be a competitive venue for elite players qualifying for All-Stars. A lot of players qualified for All-Stars playing very few games last season. Just because a few grinders slip through the cracks doesn't mean we should throw everything out the door and play 900 games 7 days a week.

    We can still try to find a balance that has something for everyone, without catering exclusively to one or the other.

  9. #9
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Worth noting, we also have the ability to host unrecorded TSL games (hosts, see XTSLD, XTSLJ, XTSLB in games list, at the bottom). Not sure if there's interest in playing for no value, but if people just want to play some matches using TSL matchmaking, I don't see any reason why we can't do that.

    It will still provide a competitive game format that randomly creates roughly even teams, and will still show value you would have received for that performance at the end of the round, which makes it superior to wbduel/javduel/base in some respects.
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
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  10. #10
    Hellrazor ronaldinho's Avatar
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    Could do an all new competition on mondays, like 20man royal rumbles with a ranking and rewards at the end of season, like last man reward and killer reward. It is just an idea, some ppls (Henry? Wii? Jessup?..) seem to want to lead a competition, why not make a special monday competition, very diffrent then wb/jav duel or base. TSL as the solo main competition, TWDT as the team main competition and a special competition on monday. Should be great.

  11. #11
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldinho View Post
    Could do an all new competition on mondays, like 20man royal rumbles with a ranking and rewards at the end of season, like last man reward and killer reward. It is just an idea, some ppls (Henry? Wii? Jessup?..) seem to want to lead a competition, why not make a special monday competition, very diffrent then wb/jav duel or base. TSL as the solo main competition, TWDT as the team main competition and a special competition on monday. Should be great.
    Not bad!! I like this type thinking. We need something new and fresh for the zone that caters to the current population!! I like!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldinho View Post
    Could do an all new competition on mondays, like 20man royal rumbles with a ranking and rewards at the end of season, like last man reward and killer reward. It is just an idea, some ppls (Henry? Wii? Jessup?..) seem to want to lead a competition, why not make a special monday competition, very diffrent then wb/jav duel or base. TSL as the solo main competition, TWDT as the team main competition and a special competition on monday. Should be great.
    Rebrand TWEL into Trench Wars Elimination League on Monday nights.
    -Wirah (Method/Mefod)

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