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Thread: TSL Ratings S3

  1. #21
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    Unrelated, but who's ForgottenGhost? I just had a look on the TSL site and the person has played well across the 3 leagues, is it Ogron hiding on an alias but still active?

    Also: that person is currently rated 0,0,0 which obv needs changing.
    Last edited by Ricko; 12-07-2017 at 08:10 AM.
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  2. #22
    Super Hero inertube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
    Unrelated, but who's ForgottenGhost? I just had a look on the TSL site and the person has played well across the 3 leagues, is it Ogron hiding on an alias but still active?

    Also: that person is currently rated 0,0,0 which obv needs changing.
    Their rating is D: 75, J: 75, B: 80 now. It was changed about 6 hours ago.
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  3. #23
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    The following ratings made me giggle due to being too low:

    Bacon: 89,80,80
    Bender Rodriguez 40,40,77
    Children 60,80,68
    Cranium 78,40,100
    Domi 40,40,93
    Doughnut 94,77,75
    Eelam 40,87,0
    Eric Clapton 87,68,0
    Euforia 70,83,0
    fahrenheit 71,85,0
    fork 66,67,0
    Havok 40,86,0
    I.D 74,40,76
    idkidc1233 0,0,0
    Jones 87,72,65
    Lorko 70,76,0
    Mcvicar 68,68,100
    Megalo 72,40,0
    Omega Red 74,73,88
    Paska 40,40,75
    Raazi 91,40,0
    Ra 70,40,80Shadowmere 82,95,0
    Siaxis 92,70,75
    Sika 40,90,88
    Tanzu 90,40,0
    Tripin 90,70,77
    vys 93,81,75




    The following ratings made me giggle due to being too high:

    Brookus 40,40,90
    Cyclone 1,2,1
    duality dude 60,1,1
    fire phoenix 0,0,88
    Hellrazor 1,1,1
    Jessup 83,83,77
    Major Crisis 78,90,90
    Mythril 100,83,100
    M_M God 73,73,100
    NL_Trigger 70,40,100
    PH 40,40,99
    Rab 79,78,85
    Skyforger 83,78,90
    Yeh 85,97,87


    Im fully aware a good part of the names ive mentioned dont play anymore and have 0 chance of logging on for a tsl game, so it doesnt really matter. I just posted em because they made me laugh a bit and too see how little whoever rated the players knows.

    On the other side, i see some cases of severely underrated and overrated players, who are active or play every once in a while.

    Players like Fork, Jones, Vys, Raazi, Tripin and siaxis should get raised in the leagues i bolded.

    MC,M_M God, Mythril, Rab and Skyforger are getting wayy overrated, to a point it will hurt them.

    And why is Yeh an all star in every league? he is a good player and super laggy, but i wouldnt give him more than 80,85,80 rofl. Whoever did his rating probably fell asleep and smashed the keyboard with his head.
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  4. #24
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kess View Post
    (ratings problems)
    They're going to have issues, as they were made by a single person before season 3. Ogron knows almost all of the active/best players quite well, and he put a lot of effort into rating people, for which he should be given his due. But there are going to be some problems, especially with players that he did not specifically know/observe playing. That's the inherent issue with one person doing ratings, no matter how good or thorough they are. The idea with S3 is to open them up and start to work on them more as a community. So thank you for contributing, and thanks to all others who have put in their two cents. Ratings will never be perfect but we'll try to get them better with time.

    All can help the league substantially by doing ratings reviews. Especially if you have info on unrated players who are playing above a 40 level. Those probably throw off the balance the most.
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  5. #25
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Updated OP to include link to live ratings display for all registered players.
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
    -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

  6. #26
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    What you've done does the trick, no need to massively change it. The ratings are transparent and people are giving feedback.

    I think someone needs to update the ratings based on the suggestions in this thread. Maybe just action every suggestion by 5 points?

    Bug:
    - on some of the player names the playerId is 0, e.g. "24". I think some of them are intentional because they're staff who don't play, but some do play.
    Last edited by Rab; 12-09-2017 at 04:52 PM.

  7. #27
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    more rating updates have taken place

    only people that are currently signed up to TSL season 3 have had their ratings changed, i know kess had mentionned other names earlier, and as soon as(if) they sign up, the ratings will be looked at and perhaps changed.

    view the updated ratings here:
    http://trenchwars.org/tsl/index.php?page=ratings
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  8. #28
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rab View Post
    What you've done does the trick, no need to massively change it.
    Bug: - on some of the player names the playerId is 0, e.g. "24". I think some of them are intentional because they're staff who don't play, but some do play.
    OK, fair enough. It's a little dirty (the "Ratings" link on Ladder page for example) but it gets the job done I suppose.

    Fixed the missing IDs. Had to do with importing ratings. When those players signed up they already had a rating, so it didn't update their ID. Thanks for catching that.
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  9. #29
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    Magnum Size should be 40-40-75 atleast. (no score atm)
    Shaun should be 75 in base (no score atm)
    Rozay should be 75-80 in base (70 too low. He can spid and shark.)
    Sno_op should be 70-75 in jav (65 too low..)
    Spectacular should be 75 in jav (68 atm)
    Tucker (voth) should be 60-60-70 (70 in jav is too high, base has no score atm)
    AFRI should be like 65-70 in jav (now 40)
    Alextron should be 65 in jav (now 40)
    Amnesti should be 65-70 in base (no score atm)
    Demonc shouldnt be 85 in base.. Way too high imo. 70 sounds good enough.
    Jurassic should be 65 in jav.
    Geio should be 90 in jav. (84 atm)
    I dont think I should be 78-90 in wb/jav. But thats for others to decide.

    And whats up with Hellrazor and cyclone? Do they count as 10 or does anything below 40 count as 40? Because the other day I saw cyclone listed as 1 in the !showteams and it counted as 1...
    Major Crisis

  10. #30
    Hellrazor ronaldinho's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I saw the modification of the ratings of the players on the TSL website, there are four players on which I emit a doubt. First Geio is rated 84 in jav and 85 in base which would make him a better player in base than in jav while the opposite is obvious, in my opinion something like 88 jav 80 base would be perfect. Then what I call the "gypsi case", which consists in overestimating the level of the player by kindness; she is a veteran player, so a girl, which is rather rare in TW, and has a good behavior, so I understand this kindness but you do not help by doing that, on the contrary. In my opinion her level is around 60 wb 20 jav 65 base. A certain spartan hurricane has made his appearance and let me say that we could be found worse than me, the player is rated 45 / none / 55, better than it would be without evaluation, while he is clearly a player in the Cyclone / Hellrazor category, and again it's not helping him to do that. And finally, this good old thix, rated 73 wb and 71 jav for I do not know what reason, which has no chance to end up in a balanced team, which suddenly makes shit the rare times he comes in these 2 leagues. 40 in wb and jav so none for both, in my opinion.

    That said, I think it's a great job, to +/- 5 everything else is perfect from my point of view. And I hope that one day the ratings will be definitively set for this new evaluation ladder system to do the work that is his, and to update directly on the website. I do not know the current formula but something simple like ratio of at least 1 during the game gives +1, otherwise -1, should do the work in wb and jav, and even if it results in disparities such that a quarter of players found themselves at 1 everywhere and another quarter exceeding 100 or 110 or 120, the consequences would be positive in the sense that it will add competition between top players and allow the weakest players to be in a stronger team. What should ultimately turn all the winning ratio between 40% and 60%, the purpose of all this.

  11. #31
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Crisis View Post
    And whats up with Hellrazor and cyclone? Do they count as 10 or does anything below 40 count as 40? Because the other day I saw cyclone listed as 1 in the !showteams and it counted as 1...
    This is an important clarification -- I'll update the OP.

    All ratings are as they appear, except for 0/(none), which gets changed to 40. So Hellrazor and Cyclone are rated as 10. This might be a bit low, but probably not by much. Rating them properly is extremely important for team balance, though.

    In S1-2 the randoms were just added at the end (via a snake assignment), so it wasn't as big a deal as it is in S3, because they were spread fairly evenly. One time you might get a better unrated player and the next time one that's worse.

    But this season, their being rated accurately is far more important, because the bot attempts to balance the overall ratings of the two teams as closely as it can.

    This means a player who is rated at 80 is effectively being judged to be "as good as" two players rated at 40. If a thoughtful captain were given the choice between the 80 at 10 deaths, or a pair of 40s (each with their own 10 deaths -- basically an extra player), it should be an almost impossibly difficult decision, under the current algorithm. If the smart pick would always be the 80 player, then those players aren't playing at a 40 level and should probably have their rating dropped.

    More clearly: Look at the expectations of a player performing at 80, and halve them for the unrated players/players playing at 40. If the 80 is expected to go on average 10-10 in d/j, the 40s should average 5-10. If the 80 is expected to average 12-10, the 40s should average 6-10. (This is somewhat of an oversimplification, as technically 2 players could do some further teaming, but for the most part it works.)

    Properly rating unrated players is one of the single biggest improvements we can make in S3. They're much more destructive unrated than they were before, so let's try to get them sorted ASAP.

    (We can also look at changing the unrated rating to 35 or even 30, if need be.)
    Last edited by qan; 12-10-2017 at 11:43 PM.
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
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  12. #32
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    There are a LOT of javelins who are rated way too high, and it becomes apparent when you see "fair teams" getting absolutely steamrolled time and time again.

    IMHO your rating should go down by more than 1 every game if you're consistently going 3-10 with 5 tks



    edit: just wanted to point out this isn't really an issue with wb or base

    only jav
    Last edited by ForgottenGhost; 12-12-2017 at 06:01 PM.

  13. #33
    All Aboard Voth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgottenGhost View Post
    There are a LOT of javelins who are rated way too high, and it becomes apparent when you see "fair teams" getting absolutely steamrolled time and time again.

    IMHO your rating should go down by more than 1 every game if you're consistently going 3-10 with 5 tks



    edit: just wanted to point out this isn't really an issue with wb or base

    only jav
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voth View Post
    hi ogron
    ForgottenG> plz keep secret until after TSL, thanks


    have screenshot as well, choo choo
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
    Unrelated, but who's ForgottenGhost? I just had a look on the TSL site and the person has played well across the 3 leagues, is it Ogron hiding on an alias but still active?
    no

    Quote Originally Posted by Voth View Post
    hi ogron
    I'm ForgottenGhost, but this is a fun league he made

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForgottenGhost View Post
    no



    I'm ForgottenGhost, but this is a fun league he made
    Old vet that has an alias created two months ago?

    http://www.trenchwars.org/index.php?...&sb.x=0&sb.y=0

  17. #37
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    who is he kidding
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
    who is he kidding
    Nowon

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