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Thread: TWD Cup Details

  1. #1
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    TWD Cup Details



    As the TWD2 season has entered it's 2nd half, it is time to share the TWD Cup details.

    Format: Double elimination tourney.

    Lose 2 games and you are out of the competition. Matches are played 5v5, no borrows, consist of rounds - 1st squad to win 2 rounds is the winner of the match.

    Divisions: TWDD & TWJD

    TOP 5 squads from the regular season ladder will be invited to the TWD Cup. If a squad refuses an invitation, the next squad in the respective ladder will take their place.

    Schedule:


    All times EST
    1st - ladder 1st place, 5th - ladder 5th place, etc.
    D1, J1 - game identifiers

    May 6th

    2PM - (D1)TWDD 4th vs 5th; (D2)TWDD 2nd vs 3rd
    3PM - (J1)TWJD 4th vs 5th; (J2) TWJD 2nd vs 3rd
    4PM - (D3)TWDD 1st vs winner of D1; (D4) Losers of D1 vs Loser of D2
    5PM - (J3)TWJD 1st vs winner of J1; (J4) Losers of J1 vs Loser of J2

    May 13th

    2PM - (D5) Loser of D3 vs Winner of D4; (D6) Winner of D2 vs Winner of D3
    3PM - (J5) Loser of J3 vs Winner of J4; (J6) Winner of J2 vs Winner of J3
    4PM - (D7) Winner of D5 vs Loser of D6
    5PM - (J7) Winner of J5 vs Loser of J6


    May 20th

    3PM - WB Finals Winner of D6 vs Winner D7
    4PM - JAV Finals Winner of J6 vs Winner J7

    Competition tree:



    ATTN: Don't put off joining a TWD squad!

    As per TWD rules - to be eligible for TWD Cup participation and medals a player has to be rostered on the squad atleast 10 full days before Regular Season close.
    Last edited by Henry Saari; 05-26-2018 at 08:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    Why the fuck would u put the bottow 3-4 squads out of the cup? I mean with the retarded +5 reward of winning u promoted activity way too much already.
    A squad with a score 47P, 12W, 35L is #3.... Even the #1 in wb has more losses than wins. Paladen has also retardly many points in twjd cuz they played more than the people under top 3. While lets be fair, a squad like Ill has more to offer in a TWD cup than Paladen...

    Just let everyone in and set a schedule. Its not like TWL has been different than this the last couple seaons. Everyone did qualify back then... And now Henry "Zone killer" Saari wants to exclude people from competition in an almost dead zone... Great thinking!
    Major Crisis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Crisis View Post
    a squad like Ill has more to offer in a TWD cup than Paladen...
    If they're good enough they'll get themselves into a qualifying spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Crisis View Post
    exclude people from competition in an almost dead zone...
    It's not competition if everyone qualifies.

  4. #4
    Registered User Geio's Avatar
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    I read this and laughed. So you want to make this competitive like TWL by leaving a few squads out of the TWDCup. But yet reward people with TWD points for losing. Either yall are dumb or stupid or both. Can we please put somebody in charge of this TWD thing to an actual player that played before 2017. I'm really for one time in my life trying to refrain from being a dickhead.....but holy duck. This zone is going down fast....especially when people running things have no fucking clue what it is to be competitive. We need changes fast......holy fuck I miss pure_luck. I strongly advise yall to sit back and put heads together since none of you wanted to listen to me months ago.
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    1. kill TSL
    2. bring back Ogron (we miss u bud)

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    This game has turned into a circus and is not worth investing time into anymore. For some reason, everyone kisses Jessup's ass and allows the guy to parade around doing whatever he wants with little to no disregard for the zone or other players. Several important staffers are cheating, yet whistleblowing proves fruitless because either those who can fix it are either MIA or completely lost interest in this game or they are cheating themselves.

    What a joke.

    TSL is incredibly stupid by all means, though I suppose it was meant to be. This TWD cup is awful. The fact that a squad can be in first place on the ladders with more losses than wins, simply because they play more than others is the worst idea ever, one that Jessup fought for just so his shitty squad could succeed for the first time since 1999 and higher ups just bowed down and locked lips on that ass of his.

    Had I known the state of decay this game would slip into from the likes of Jessup and Henry, I would of quit much earlier on. They ran off the people who legit cared about this game and actually made it worthwhile to play, taking control for themselves and did nothing but make everything fun about this game into a pile of steamy garbage. Like so many already who left, I am joining them because at this time and most likely the rest of time, this game is not worth playing.

    It saddens me how far this game has plunged recently at the hands of a select few, but at the same time, I am relieved I no longer have to waste my time on the nonsense this game has become any longer. I'll happily start playing once again if Beasty and the like took corrupt staff seriously and fired those who abuse their powers to gain advantage over others and fix this shit show that is TWD/TSL, though honestly, I am very doubtful of this happening. Anyways, just thought I'd chime in since I was one of the most active players in the zone for the last two years straight. Cheers.

    -IxaDor

  7. #7
    Registered User Geio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixador View Post
    This game has turned into a circus and is not worth investing time into anymore. For some reason, everyone kisses Jessup's ass and allows the guy to parade around doing whatever he wants with little to no disregard for the zone or other players. Several important staffers are cheating, yet whistleblowing proves fruitless because either those who can fix it are either MIA or completely lost interest in this game or they are cheating themselves.

    What a joke.

    TSL is incredibly stupid by all means, though I suppose it was meant to be. This TWD cup is awful. The fact that a squad can be in first place on the ladders with more losses than wins, simply because they play more than others is the worst idea ever, one that Jessup fought for just so his shitty squad could succeed for the first time since 1999 and higher ups just bowed down and locked lips on that ass of his.

    Had I known the state of decay this game would slip into from the likes of Jessup and Henry, I would of quit much earlier on. They ran off the people who legit cared about this game and actually made it worthwhile to play, taking control for themselves and did nothing but make everything fun about this game into a pile of steamy garbage. Like so many already who left, I am joining them because at this time and most likely the rest of time, this game is not worth playing.

    It saddens me how far this game has plunged recently at the hands of a select few, but at the same time, I am relieved I no longer have to waste my time on the nonsense this game has become any longer. I'll happily start playing once again if Beasty and the like took corrupt staff seriously and fired those who abuse their powers to gain advantage over others and fix this shit show that is TWD/TSL, though honestly, I am very doubtful of this happening. Anyways, just thought I'd chime in since I was one of the most active players in the zone for the last two years straight. Cheers.

    -IxaDor
    Great post
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  8. #8
    Plade Cap Dreamwin's Avatar
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    Yeah seriously, are you fking high letting top 5 qualify in 2018 with these joke settings that allow 1:3 w:l ratio squad to be at 1600 points.

    There is absolutely 0 logic behind this. I would call this a production of Jessup logic.

    You can do better than this, seriously..
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    It might help if you whiny fuckers could say what you actually want instead.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rab View Post
    It might help if you whiny fuckers could say what you actually want instead.
    They did?
    "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
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  11. #11
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geio View Post
    I read this and laughed. So you want to make this competitive like TWL by leaving a few squads out of the TWDCup. But yet reward people with TWD points for losing. Either yall are dumb or stupid or both. Can we please put somebody in charge of this TWD thing to an actual player that played before 2017. I'm really for one time in my life trying to refrain from being a dickhead.....but holy duck. This zone is going down fast....especially when people running things have no fucking clue what it is to be competitive. We need changes fast......holy fuck I miss pure_luck. I strongly advise yall to sit back and put heads together since none of you wanted to listen to me months ago.
    As you remember, a few months ago, Geio, you were hired as TWD SMod (along with Doughnut). You had to go inactive for personal reasons. And that's totally understandable. But it left the zone in a difficult spot. Heaven, the previous Head of Leagues, also ghosted after the new year. This left everyone scrambling. Losing both leagues head and having the TWD project fizzle meant long delays and a loss of much-needed momentum. It's only by a near miracle that we've been able to get where we are now.

    People are living adult lives, and the spaceship game can't be a priority for most. If only the game were crawling with hard-working NEETs! But most people just don't have the time.

    Before this was put together, TWD was on its last gasp. From the first day of TSL last summer, the average number of games dropped from over 20 a day to around 6-7. But without having run TSL that summer, Ogron knew there wouldn't even be a TWD 3 months later. Summer is a notoriously difficult time for organized leagues due to vacations, weekend plans, etc., and without some organized league such as TWDT, TWEL, or TWL running, vets run out of reasons to log in. It was a calculated move: there was very little else to be done. TW would not have survived Summer 2017 otherwise. But the toll was harsh. By August, TWBD had all but stopped. And TWD activity never picked up between seasons of TSL/TWDT. Keeping regular scheduled leagues going meant that people could simply show up when scheduled, and no longer needed to put effort into organizing and building a squad. And to be fair, few people had time to play anymore, much less manage a squad. It suited the reality of the situation. But TWD was a quiet whisper.

    Enter the plan to bring it back. While controversial, it's incontrovertibly increased TWD activity, even while TSL's running. With activity comes the possibility of increasing competition later on, carrying forward momentum, and making changes to improve things with each iteration, fixing what's broken progressively. And we're seeing new squads created, new blood enter into competitive play ... a path that's long been closed off, with league players having long ago retreated to snobbish elitism, refusing to play elim/pub or interact with anyone who hasn't been playing for 10+ years. We're seeing games getting played. It's difficult to have finals feel very meaningful if a losing squad makes them, it's true. Yet it's even harder without players.

    It'd be wonderful if all those who used to play would simply stop having lives and come back. But, generally speaking, they just aren't. And most are not able or willing to put in the time to keep a squad going, or even idle in hope of a game. We can lay all manner of fault at any number of doors. But bottom line, nobody has a perfect solution. You sure don't, Geio. Listening to you is not the solution, as you just aren't saying much. You're fast to point out what's wrong, but not provide a solution. "Just do what we did before" hasn't worked. That's how we are where we are now.

    So as Rab said, it's time to chime in. Either here or on the WhatsApp group you're part of that cleared this before the post was made.
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
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  12. #12
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    The TWD cup itself is a great idea, and I'm happy with the format over a couple of weeks.

    My HUGE issue is what I said the other day on another thread - the TWD points system is completely flawed at the moment by squads being granted pts for losing..Sulake and Paladen in the traditional pts system would be right at the bottom of the ladder.

    As a member of a squad like Pure Luck, what are the chances of us even pushing for top 5 in these leagues? We can probably throw together 10-15 or so matches in each league due to busy lives, but that probably wont be nearly enough to actually push up the ladder and get a top 5 place to qualify for this cup - if we win 10 of 15 we'd probably end up accumulating 200 odd points, but paladen can go and lose 30 matches in that time, get 150 pts and still be miles ahead of us on the ladder, keeping us out of twdcup even though most people would agree we'd be more welcome in the cup from a competitive aspect.

    Any league that has Paladen sitting a top of it with a negative W:L clearly has something wrong with its structure.
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    I did a quick spreadsheet to see how many points squads have gained from losses, to see if removing those points would change the ladder.

    tl/dr: Changing $5 to $0 would make fuck all difference. We'd have to revert back to losing points based on rating to change anything.

    Spreadsheet:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

  14. #14
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rab View Post
    I did a quick spreadsheet to see how many points squads have gained from losses, to see if removing those points would change the ladder.

    tl/dr: Changing $5 to $0 would make fuck all difference. We'd have to revert back to losing points based on rating to change anything.

    Spreadsheet:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    Yeah I did the maths mentally too - reducing a loss from 5 to 0 points doesn't make much difference. I'd say reverting to losing points for a loss is a better solution - if losing will cost you points and ladder positions then that's only a positive in terms of making twd competitive. Why we even changed the pts system is beyond me (this isn't coming from someone who dislikes change, but dislikes pointless decisions that don't better the zone in any way).
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    I'll just add that for the purposes of TWD Cup, it does not really matter much in what place you finish in regular season, as long as it is TOP5.

    "Deserving a spot" is a can of worms for a philosophical discussion. Certainly a squad that has grinded the whole season and is pushing 100 games like Paladen could be argued have shown more dedication for the spot than a squad that has just been created around roster softlock and has played say 2 games total, wouldn't it?

    That said the race for the Cup spots is still very much open even for late squads! Like right now a squad with 5 games total per season would qualify if the regular season would end now in DD. That is rather relaxed as the TWD Cup is meant as playoff for the TWD squads afterall.

    That said, seeing as some vet squads don't have the time for a daily or even sunday grind, perhaps it is time to introduce a 3rd league in addition to TSL and TWD. One with primarily the legacy players in mind and only scheduled games, say, could auto invite any squads that have a minimum of 5 ex-TWL players on their roster. That's just brainstorming but there are solutions if we build up instead of trying to tear down!

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    I have run a very successful league in EG so while Iím not very old in TW i feel like I have some merit with my recommendation. I think one way that could help settle things are capping how many points you lose for losses. Make it 5 points for every loss rather than 20+. If itís 5-10 points for every loss, that might balance things out a little bit. That would give -100 to -250 for 25 losses. This wouldnít completely flip a team to the bottom and would still encourage games without making it seem hopeless for a new team trying to make the top 5. Also, looking at the spreadsheet reveals the flaws a little more. Paladen and Potenza have essentially the same amount of wins yet Paladen is ahead simply by playing more games. 27-31 should not be better than 26-4. Itís unrealistic to expect a new team to try and come remotely close to competing to knock off teams like Sulake or Paladen. 30 games at 30 minutes a piece is 15 hours of playing. I think a limited penalty like I mentioned would be the better compromise by not going back to the old system while also not penalizing activity.
    Last edited by afghan; 04-16-2018 at 06:37 AM.

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    I fed some fairly large loss numbers into my spreadsheet and it didn't do much - because the points awarded for wins have been artificially high as a consequence of ratings not being fully reduced when someone loses.

  18. #18
    Registered User skyforger's Avatar
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    Players on this forum seem to be content when a new player in pub with a rec of K:200 D:600 gets more pubbux than those of us here that still play pub and go 100-20.

    When it comes to TWD 2.0 people are confusing it with something which it is not. Rather than an alternative for TWL, it is meant more like our pub - a breeding ground - abeit for new squads rather than players. There is a reason such setup works and as Dierienow pointed out, modern popular commercial games use similar systems for their casualpetetive ladders for a good reason! If it is a success, it can then be used to build greater squad leagues and provide some additional longevity.

    From my perspective, attempts to go back to some variant of the failed original TWD scoring will kill TWD sooner or later depending on how regressive the changes would be.

    Per game theory it should work like this for squads:

    a) full blown negative penalty for a loss - only accept a match as favorite to win;
    b) 0 points - accept a match you may win;
    c) activity bonuses - play as much as possible even with slim to none chances to win.

    In TWD2.0 right now odds are a challenge will be scooped up by Paladen or Sulake, especially if not in prime time. Coincidentally or not, these two also seem to be the only ones open to recruit newcomers from TSL/!lfs (exceptions apply) to keep the activity up. Remove the liquidity of games these two currently provide and it's gg - much the same as removing the incentive for the 200-600 guys to keep pubbing.
    Last edited by skyforger; 04-16-2018 at 09:00 AM.

  19. #19
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyforger View Post
    Players on this forum seem to be content when a new player in pub with a rec of K:200 D:600 gets more pubbux than those of us here that still play pub and go 100-20.
    That's because it's pub, it is and always has been a more casual affair. It is meant to be casual gaming, whereas TWD is (or at least was) meant to be somewhat competitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyforger View Post
    When it comes to TWD 2.0 people are confusing it with something which it is not. Rather than an alternative for TWL, it is meant more like our pub.
    Nope, no it isn't. That's your perception of it, and your perception is different from most people who have put years into competitive TWD and TWL play. TWD at worst is or was meant to be a half way house between Pub and TWL.

    The issue we have is this bubble of casual gamers who have taken prevalence in the zone because they still somehow can play 5+ hours a day when the rest of us have had to slow down our gaming due to real life. This bubble of players has tried to push things like TSL and casual TWDing to the forefront, whilst killing off the highly competitive aspect of TW that kept a majority of players active over the last 15+ years. This in turn has meant the speeding up of the pre-existing player decline we have been seeing over the last few years.

    I think very few people ever accused the old TWD pts system of being broken, maybe those people who are still around now who pushed for this change or actually like them are those who failed to achieve any success in TWD/TWL when things mattered more?
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  20. #20
    zeebu 'DUMPTRUCK' johnson Zeebu's Avatar
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    screw off twd cup and just incorporate an all inclusive pyramid ladder tournament style. we had something like that ages and ages ago. make it mandatory that you accept a couple challenges a week per league. outline specific rules for challenging other squads. set aside blocks of time per week that are allowable times to schedule games.

    weekly participation is good because you must accept the challenges per the outlined rules. also the more talented squads should rise towards the top of the pyramid and stay there given enough time.


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