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Thread: Elim - Changes & New Season Coming!

  1. #1
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    Elim - Changes & New Season Coming!

    Hello all,

    As you may or may not be aware, I am the new Elim Coordinator. Therefore, I am looking to hear some feedback, general thoughts / ideas, etc. as to what you guys would like to see from Elim. Personally, I'd like to see it reminiscent of the days of old - big turnouts and competitive. That being said, below are some initial ideas I have:

    1. Shorten the season length - To keep things fresh, I'm aiming for an Elim season to be in the 2-3 month spectrum. The winner / top performers of each season will have their names placed in the arena, similar to the TWL Champs, TWDT, etc.

    2. Change how the ratings are calculated - At the moment, 1,000 games are needed to be played in order to have "full confidence" in awarding of points to the rating. This will be cut down to 50 to better adhere to the shortened season. Additionally, winning a round will be incorporated into the rating calculation.

    3. Map changes - Specifically to every ship played outside of the base, I would like to see the map shortened when there are 10 players or less playing. In my opinion, there is a lot of time being spent trying to find players in the larger map when there are only a couple people playing. ** If anyone has experience with creating / editing maps, and would like to take on this task, please reach out either in game or via email: Elim@trenchwars.com !

    4. Practice Areas - How does everyone feel about the practice areas? Should they stay or should they go?

    5. Rewards - It seems pub and pubbux are attractive to the newer players in the zone. There may be an award system for wins / consecutive wins involving pubbux, upgrades, etc.

    From here I open the floor to everyone - Let's see some constructive feedback to help make Elim great once again!
    Last edited by Henry Saari; 05-28-2018 at 07:22 PM.
    - MS

  2. #2
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    Sounds good to me MS but please don't make the map shorter. They screwed up pub majorly by making the map smaller for less players and it's only become a spawn fest. A better idea would be to have the flag in mid award pubbux or score, so if people want they can go claim it as well as if it's down to a couple people, there is a good chance they will be in mid sitting on that flag to get extra points. The whole point of elim is to experiement and perfect your playstyle to be used in TWD games, shrinking maps or changing them will remove that which is pretty important.

    I think if you just reset the season and make the incentives known to everyone via forum post like you did or in-game, ie. "New season starting! Top players at the end of it will be placed in HOF plus winning games gives (x)amount of pubbux!" that would do a world of good since it hasn't been reset in ages.

    Might be worthwhile to advert quarterly who the top players are to give people more reason to hop in to either knock those players down or for those players to defend. An active leaderboard via website or in-game would be great too.

    Thanks for stepping up to revitalize elim. Look forward to playing it once you hammer out the kinks and get it up and going. Cheers.

    -IxaDor

    EDIT1: Not sure if you remember but Elim used to be locked out to new players who didn't have like 40 or 80 hours, think it was 80 in my day. Maybe think of something creative that players have to work towards before they can just hop into elim. Ie. Must play 40 hours of pub or 5 TWD Games. I kind of like the TWD game idea since it would push people into squad joining and playing games. Anything would work really but I think a few small hoops to jump through before playing elim is a great way to do it. I remember when I would lose net, come back and make a new toon because I forgot my password, I would grind out hours in pub so I could play in elim and elim felt so damn special! A small achievement. Think giving the feeling to players again would be fun.

    EDIT2 : Oh yea, please have Qan add graphics for K/D over radar map like we see in TWD games. I'd also like a small box or something that isn't F2 that has active players in-game left to kill. Not sure if its feasible but would be fun and save time from us using F2 or PageUp/Down constantly to see who's left. Or maybe allow us to pm elimbot !watchnme (scores)to give us readouts as we play similar to the !watchnme # command we use in TWD. Whole point is for us to make it so all our focus can be on playing the game.
    Last edited by IxaDor; 05-14-2018 at 01:40 PM.

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    1 - Didn't know elim had seasons + don't care.
    2 - Didn't know elim had ratings + don't care.
    3 - Map is fine.
    4 - Remove practice areas. Put people directly in spec when they're out.
    5 - Don't care about rewards.

    Add:

    6 - Remove all ship choices except Wb and Jav.
    7 - Remove choice for shrap Y/N. Default to N.
    8 - Consider if there could be a meaningful incentive to join a squad.
    9 - Stop aliasing completely. Nuke it from orbit.
    Edit: Increased text size of #9 so it's not missed. Literally the #1 reason people don't play elim is aliasing scumbags.
    Last edited by Rab; 05-14-2018 at 02:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rab View Post
    1 - Didn't know elim had seasons + don't care.
    2 - Didn't know elim had ratings + don't care.
    3 - Map is fine.
    4 - Remove practice areas. Put people directly in spec when they're out.
    5 - Don't care about rewards.

    Add:

    6 - Remove all ship choices except Wb and Jav.
    7 - Remove choice for shrap Y/N. Default to N.
    8 - Consider if there could be a meaningful incentive to join a squad.
    9 - Stop aliasing completely. Nuke it from orbit.
    Agree with Rab on 2, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9. Didn't think of it until just now but yea, should only be WB/Jav, shrap definitely needs to go since players will never see it outside of pub and yea, aliasing needs to go but if you look at my Edit 1, that would be solved easily if people had to be on and play with a TWD squad before elim.

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    Thanks for the response Ixa.

    I like the idea with the flag giving an award out in mid to increase players converging to that area versus a smaller map. When I said smaller, I meant maybe a 1-2 grid reduction from each end. Nothing too major that would dramatically increase spawns, I don't think haha.

    There will be adverts going throughout the days / season to increase popularity and awareness. Especially once the ball gets rolling.

    When I started playing, it was 36 hours required playtime to enter Elim. Eventually I'd like to have something like that in place again, but I think to cultivate bigger turnouts with newer players, that might hinder versus give incentive.

    All in all this will be a work in progress. I hope to get the season starting ASAP. Keep the ideas flowing!

    -MS
    - MS

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    The seasons have typically been long and drawn out, often leading to them being forgotten. The main purpose of this is to promote activity and some competitive game play in between other "seasons" of sorts. Elim has always been a staple in the game, and has great potential to add to the experience of TW.

    It would be impossible to stop aliasing overall. Perhaps some restrictions could be put into place similar to that of TWD. Specifically, only 1 name can be used to climb the ladder, similar to how only one name can be on an active squad and able to play in TWD matches. Sure you can still play under different names, but only the registered one will earn rating points during the season.

    Thoughts?
    - MS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastersword View Post
    The seasons have typically been long and drawn out, often leading to them being forgotten. The main purpose of this is to promote activity and some competitive game play in between other "seasons" of sorts. Elim has always been a staple in the game, and has great potential to add to the experience of TW.

    It would be impossible to stop aliasing overall. Perhaps some restrictions could be put into place similar to that of TWD. Specifically, only 1 name can be used to climb the ladder, similar to how only one name can be on an active squad and able to play in TWD matches. Sure you can still play under different names, but only the registered one will earn rating points during the season.

    Thoughts?
    To respond to you last statement, aliasing should not be allowed period since it would disrupt the other players who are playing on a registered name. It would be unfair if say RaCka went alias, hopped into a game and destroyed guys ruining their scores/ladder placement. It's a form of "griefing" players and it should not be allowed in competitve play or any kind of ranked games. Just about every competitive online game is against "smurfing", SS should be no different. An easy way is like I said, make it so players must be actively enrolled in a twd squad and have played a few games. Let's not kid ourselves, the only people playing outside of pub are vets or long time players. If they know how to ?go elim, they probably know how to apply and join a squad, especially now that it can all be done within game, eliminating the need to go to the twd website. I'd highly recommend making it so to play in elim, you must be active in TWD. It would make for more rewarding matches and offer an incentive to be active not in just elim but twd which is the zones bread and butter. Cheers.

    EDIT: The whole point of TSL, TWD Cup, ect. is to bring people not only into a competitive enviroment but to also get them on a squad to play TWD games. I think all forms of league whether Elim, Cup, Duel, w/e should always circle back to TWD. Connecting leagues to TWD is a great way to keep activity up and players happy.

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    I agree with Ixador. Make it so you have to play on your TWD name. If you don't have a TWD name, that's incentive to join a squad.

  9. #9
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Playing with some alternative ratings. One problem with current ratings is that they're not all that meaningful, as the formula's just not all that reflective of the skill required to earn a rating, and extreme scores like 1-10 and 20-2 tend to lead to too-extreme ratings. Trying a new approach incorporating a slight bump for wins, KOs, and winning in larger games, as well as making the base formula overall more robust. You can enter values into this sheet to see what the new rating vs old would give with different round stats, and to see a more detailed explanation of how it works. Suggestions appreciated. Is just a brainstorm at the moment.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing


    Regarding aliasing, we could look at requiring TWD registration, though it would make it obviously much less accessible to newer players. Some players (Mac, Linux) also need a TWDOp to be able to register. We could disallow recording of scores unless playing on a TWD-enabled name, but that would only prevent the aliasing players from acquiring a rating. We could nullify all scores if an unregistered player is playing, but that would mean most games would not affect rating, and could be trolled. We could rewrite code to not have ratings of unregistered players affect registered players' scores, but that sounds pretty tedious. Take your pick of what has the most liveable tradeoffs.
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
    -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

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    Lifeban them if they play on a non twd name. Same goes for tsl and twdt.

  11. #11
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    Thanks for taking charge of this elim season MS.

    I would like to see 6 maps in the elim arena...say 3 fighter maps and 3 base maps that are randomly used for games. Say a warbird arena with no trees or rocks.. totally open. and another with space walls like in ?go snipe and then the old one too. For base ships I'd like to see the old one and 2 new ones with totally different wall layouts. Mix it up more perhaps. These 2 maps in elim are old as fk and a tad boring to me at least after all these years. We can cut the size down of maps a lot doing away with overflow areas in maps we now have.. they are never used.. the space saved with removal of practice arena and overflow areas would give us enough room for 6 maps.

    I'd also like to see bonuses given for 2fers, 3fers, 4fers, 5 fers, 6 fers ect... make fighter ship bonuses for 2 fers and 3fers even more special and in javs make them progressively larger as the #fers go up in numbers.

    I see zero reason to penalize aliasers. So what if a player wants to alias in elim. It won't adversly affect anyone as we all are on our own freqs. They would have to use that alias often to make rankings anyways. Not a big deal to me at all.

    Rankings with ladders is an absolute necessity. Why anyone would be against this in an elim season makes zero sense to me. It wouldn't be a season without it lol. Def into top 3-5 getting names in corner of map with season listings too. Makes us strive for things there.

    I'm willing to try and make some arena maps too if you like my idea of 6 maps in the arena.. 3 fighter / 3 baser

    The flag idea on surface creating bonuses is interesting but I foresee some problems of people gaming system with it. It could wind up being this touch touch touch touch touch game that would detract from the elim experience... but it isn't all a bad idea.. just worries me some... .how about do away with stationary flag to avoid a touch touch touch game and insert an EG type flag. That way it is a movable flag and whoever kills the flag carrier then gets flag. It would draw attention to that player and make bonuses holding it more worthwhile.

    Just a few ideas from me to add to the input here. ^_^
    Last edited by Jessup; 05-15-2018 at 03:53 AM.
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    I also see no reason to remove ship type vote.. just make 3 death limits for terr and shark elims. LEV could be axed sigh. I love it but.. it is slow.. or allow 2 death limits. Spider and lanc allow just 5's. Also make race to 15 hard set.. none of this 30 death race stuff in options..
    Last edited by Jessup; 05-15-2018 at 03:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    Thanks for taking charge of this elim season MS.

    I would like to see 6 maps in the elim arena...say 3 fighter maps and 3 base maps that are randomly used for games. Say a warbird arena with no trees or rocks.. totally open. and another with space walls like in ?go snipe and then the old one too. For base ships I'd like to see the old one and 2 new ones with totally different wall layouts. Mix it up more perhaps. These 2 maps in elim are old as fk and a tad boring to me at least after all these years. We can cut the size down of maps a lot doing away with overflow areas in maps we now have.. they are never used.. the space saved with removal of practice arena and overflow areas would give us enough room for 6 maps.

    I'd also like to see bonuses given for 2fers, 3fers, 4fers, 5 fers, 6 fers ect... make fighter ship bonuses for 2 fers and 3fers even more special and in javs make them progressively larger as the #fers go up in numbers.

    I see zero reason to penalize aliasers. So what if a player wants to alias in elim. It won't adversly affect anyone as we all are on our own freqs. They would have to use that alias often to make rankings anyways. Not a big deal to me at all.

    Rankings with ladders is an absolute necessity. Why anyone would be against this in an elim season makes zero sense to me. It wouldn't be a season without it lol. Def into top 3-5 getting names in corner of map with season listings too. Makes us strive for things there.

    I'm willing to try and make some arena maps too if you like my idea of 6 maps in the arena.. 3 fighter / 3 baser

    The flag idea on surface creating bonuses is interesting but I foresee some problems of people gaming system with it. It could wind up being this touch touch touch touch touch game that would detract from the elim experience... but it isn't all a bad idea.. just worries me some... .how about do away with stationary flag to avoid a touch touch touch game and insert an EG type flag. That way it is a movable flag and whoever kills the flag carrier then gets flag. It would draw attention to that player and make bonuses holding it more worthwhile.

    Just a few ideas from me to add to the input here. ^_^
    Some great ideas, Jessup. I really like the movable flag concept, could definitely bring another layer to the game. Perhaps a bonus can be put into the formula that goes along with the streaks, for example: 5-0 steak "on fire", 7-0 "rampage" etc.

    While I think some map changes will be good, I don't think we will need 6 entirely new maps. Maybe we can work on 1 brand new for each, 1 base and 1 fighter and introduce that when the season has begun.
    - MS

  14. #14
    Registered User skyforger's Avatar
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    All good ideas itt! Also like mixing it up some like with the golden gun movable flag thing. Unorthodox, but an entirely new dimension to a 1v1 league concept. Also elim is entitled to the big letter overlay ad graphic that javduel has appearing in pub. Move the newbies out of pub again!

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    Qan said that Elim has the ad graphic, but I don't think I saw it. Will test again today
    - MS

  16. #16
    Registered User skyforger's Avatar
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    We tested it right now, it's there. But not sure it's same size as ?go javduel one?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastersword View Post
    I really like the movable flag concept, could definitely bring another layer to the game. Perhaps a bonus can be put into the formula that goes along with the streaks, for example: 5-0 steak "on fire", 7-0 "rampage" etc.
    Good point about using streak bonuses instead of #fer bonuses. Big multikills like 3fers ect.. would be covered by a streak bonus system. We already have some coding too that recognizes streaks so should be easeir to implement it.. Guess that is a question for qan and any other coders we have to answe though.

    Thinking about the movable flag bonus idea coming to light thanks to the input from this thread is pretty exciting too! Would def make elim have a new fun layer to it. Coding for TWSD games already have something very similar. TWSD has the movable flag and awards bonus for each kill made by flag carrier team already so dropping this code into elim could almost be copy and pasted and dropped in with a few basic tweeks I'm guessing. Again though answers qan and other coders would gave to answer on how it could actually be installed. I'm excited!! This is sounding cooler and cooler!
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    I don't wanna be a bulling but, what about adding a shame comment when someone kills you too many times and when you've lost too many times, same way it works for the winning streak.
    Example: TOMA lost again! he should consider go back to pub.
    TOMA has died 5 times in a row ... can not even hit the rocks!

    Ranking should not be only numbers, also categorize like bronze silver platinum master.... depends on duel ranking ... kills statistics ... medals ...

    TWD champion here.

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    Sorry but the rewards for winning have to be Real. Since competition thrives on meaningful reward and carrot drives the horse and all that. Also let late people enter.. at least for now while nobody plays it. My MO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dierienow View Post
    Sorry but the rewards for winning have to be Real. Since competition thrives on meaningful reward and carrot drives the horse and all that. Also let late people enter.. at least for now while nobody plays it. My MO.
    I see what you mean, Dierienow. What do you think would suffice as an effective reward. Thus far I have the top 3 performers being immortalized in the top left of map (just like twl, ?go duel, etc). Additionally, I was considering medals (gold, silver, bronze).
    - MS

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