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Thread: Time for some pub changes

  1. #41
    wiibimbo mtine's Avatar
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    How do you know this game is dead?

    When LaSenza makes a post on the forum.
    "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
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    wiibimbo>I'm gonna take u out next week for a beer and pizza at Leonardo's...no homo tho! I prefer big boobs
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  2. #42
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIET
    To limit the way rockets and bursts affect the basing game while spawing in midbase I would suggest prizing those items after a certain amount of time.
    This would be possible, but maybe would seem a bit wonky. It might serve the same purpose to just have the bot do ?set Javelin:InitialRocket=0 whenever the very low-pop spawn is enabled, disabling rocket spawning. Anyone have an opinion on this? (We could look at doing this with other settings, having a special "very low pop" mode that disabled certain features that can turn into viable but uninteresting/destructive strategies, like rocketjav.)

    As Rab pointed out it's too easy to claim the flag with weasel and I agree, but I'm not sure if all the suggestions to balance it are quite helping to address the issue. Getting rid of both the rockets and the repel would make it too hard to pilot.
    The loss of rep does certainly make it trickier. However, with its small size, it's able to get around mines and other problem areas. Receiving stealth as an initial also allows them to get quite sneaky. It's been a while since weasel's started with stealth; worth seeing how it plays out for a bit.

    Currently having both stealth and cloak on at the same time is quite high-drain. I believe it's not possible to enable stealth and cloak and then kill someone except in the first few seconds (meaning the weasel would have been seen cloaking anyhow, so that it wouldn't be all that useful, except for perhaps slight repositioning and striking from an unexpected place). Would need to verify this, though. Basically going full cloak+stealth is meant for transportation only, with the idea that you'll need to drop stealth or stealth and cloak in order to recharge. So you can use it to escape or use it to get into position, but being fully cloaked/stealthed and then striking is not all that practical. But, again, it's been a while since the most recent adjustments were made, and I might not be recalling perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rab
    - Is overpowered when multiple terrs get a prize green
    - Can the probability of a burst green be reduced?
    - Buying bursts is location limited, and restricted to 1 minute. The locations are:
    TW-PubSystem> To buy an item, you must be in one of these areas: in Mid Base around Flagroom around Flagroom Not yet spotted in Flagroom Cram in Lower Base in Buyzone
    - I tested a few areas where you can buy bursts and send them into the flag room. IMO this means the areas aren't strict enough.
    - I think buying bursts may as well be removed, by the time it's balanced properly it's just easier to ship change to get a new burst, that also has the advantage of making you sacrifice your port.
    Could look at reducing burst frequency in greens, though getting people to fly Terr is difficult enough, as they are probably the most trashed ship in the game. Can't remember the last time I played for more than a few rounds and haven't heard someone on the team complaining about the Terr. Even competent terrs who've played for years. One mistake and everyone's all over them.

    Any more info on what you mean re: the buy locations not being strict enough? The intent was, buying in or near FR would be a challenge, but buying outside in order to mount an offense would be possible. The reasoning behind this is that helping the losing team through subtle means keeps the action going. But it's not really accounting for lower-population times. Bursts are a rather annoying way to die, of course... yet are part of the game at this point. Would a longer buy delay be reasonable? There are other restrictions that can be applied, such as how many of a certain item can be bought during each life, and which might prevent certain behavior while not sacrificing other intentions.

    - Definitely needs a time limit so you can't buy infinite rockets, even if it's only 1 minute.
    This one's a no-brainer; probably just an oversight. Will fix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dierienow
    - Kills in terr worth much less than in other ships.. say if a terr kills you it's worth 1/4 - 2/3 of what it would be worth to kill them. Might be like that already who knows. But nobody gains/loses features, everything is basically the same, only there's a slight nudge to change behaviour of the players.
    I haven't really factored in the money aspect. Do you think this is all that common, players simply grinding kills with bursts for pubbux? I always assumed they do it more for the joy of the kill.

    I worry about anything that makes it less worthwhile to play terr, though. Any time someone's terring, even if they're playing poorly, they become a mobile attach point, which generally increases team play. Of course, suicidal terrs brust-grinding aren't great attach points, but at some point they may make it into FR and increase the competitiveness of the game. After enough people begin attaching, it may also cause them to change how they play.

    In Distension, support ships (terr & shark) received a larger round win bonus. Could look at doing that with pub, and reduce how much they earn for kills.

    I agree it should somehow be more difficult for x's to reach the flag, and that currently it is TOO easy to break flag control.
    This was changed somewhat recently in response to many people complaining about "flag lag." Basically, they were frustrated that it took too long to break a hold. Mostly this complaint comes from those playing during slower times. So I adjusted it to scale with population; when there are few players at the start of a round, the break time is shorter.

    Unfortunately this still needs a refactoring, because at the moment the flag timer is checked only once a second, so this can make for uneven responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rab
    30s on the brick is too short too. it's proper hax when you get a few weasels buying max bricks.
    This might need adjusting again. Brick was added a bit back, and pretty much nobody was using it/knew it was buyable. Now that it's being used more frequently, they might be testing the limits of the implementation.

    Levis just totally ruined some really good rounds. lolnope must be removed, there's no two ways about it.
    This seems to be operating from the perspective that Levis basically shouldn't be part of the game. There are quite a lot of tools available to handle them. If your only response is to buy purepub, your use of that toolkit is rather limited. If your belief is that you shouldn't have to handle them, well ... we no longer have two pubs, and can't simply make one pure and one not. Can look at increasing the cost of !lolnope further, though it's already become quite expensive, and only saves them for 10 minutes, anyhow. (I'll take a look at how often it's being used.) It seems nothing but fair that if you have the ability to deny one group of players the ability of a certain kind of established play by using the in-game currency, that they also are able to use that same currency to overturn it. At which point you need to resort to normal gameplay in order to combat them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lasenza
    Being as most of you guys are talking about the flag room and other things I'll not bother getting into (Fr area warp is unhealthy, and the reason I do not play in the base anymore) because I almost never go to the base in pub itself. I thought I'd take the time to bring up another issue I've had with pub. The duel arenas. Ever consider linking those arenas to TWEL? Also, why are the duels only to 5, there should be an option to increase it to 10, considering 10 is a standard option in the official dueling arena. Personally, I think they're poorly designed in the first place. I'm sure I'm not the only one turned off by 20-30 asteroids blocking my radar at any given point in a duel.
    Can you explain why you believe the FR warp to be unhealthy? Rab agrees with you, I believe. Might be worth discussing more, and trying a weekend with warp disabled, if enough people really see it as destructive.

    Would definitely be interesting to see the duel arenas linked to TWEL, and to see duels to 10 (or other #s), different arenas, etc. At the moment the dueling system in Pub was built piece by piece, on top of the rest of the features, making it quite unwieldy to add yet more features, though. I'd thought of some system where you'd set up duel parameters (choose ship, number of lives, arena, etc). But bottom line is that it needs a complete overhaul. I don't really have the time or interest, though. Have thought about maybe putting together a tiny kickstarter for it, as money is basically the only thing that could possess me to give up large numbers of weekend hours that are much better spent actually enjoying life, heh. (I do like to code. But I do enough of it already, and there's an unending list of features that could be added. I once quit my job and lived off of savings to code for TW.)

    Quote Originally Posted by mtine
    How do you know this game is dead?
    How do you know it's still alive? When people who don't play it anymore are still posting consistently negative comments in order to try to bring it down, and yet it still keeps going in spite of this. Time to get a hobby, wii.
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
    -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

  3. #43
    wiibimbo mtine's Avatar
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    I got many hobbies now qan. But when I wake up/before I go to bed I just check on you lazy fuks to see how far the guys in charge are gonna bring this game. And I'm amazed every day at how bad this is paning out to be. No disrespect to you, man, but the others are doing nothing to save this beautiful game. Oh well, have fun as long as you have.
    "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
    Napoleon Hill


    wiibimbo>I'm gonna take u out next week for a beer and pizza at Leonardo's...no homo tho! I prefer big boobs
    Dral>I can get implants

  4. #44
    Registered User Bosshawk's Avatar
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    Ive only been back a short time..and i got hooked in this game with basing.. and the intense flagroom fights.... they disappeared for a long time

    The one thing ive noticed since being back.. especially on the weekend was how intense the large flagroom fights have become again... espeically with 40-60 in pub (minus the specs... but still 15-20 per freq in the flagroom) it was awesome.. and i think guys getting into action would be no less hooked then any console game....

    So much effort goes into this game its appreciated by those that are still here...

    my observation on one issue though:

    Thors... absolutely wreck an awesome flag fight... sure everyone has opinions on how levis or cloakers ruin basing but they are a fact of life and ships in the zone... so you learn how to deal with them....

    But when it comes to thors there is no recourse.. no dodging, no repping just boom and your whole freq in the flagroom is dead... then you have to try to get back into a loaded flagroom with 15-20 enemy makes it extrememly tough if they are organized.. and often no one gets back in till the round end...

    It is the one thing that other then pointing in a general direction that theres no skill to using and anyone can destroy a whole freq just becauuse they played enough to have enough pub bux to buy....

    if there was one change to be done.. removing it would be one option id love to see...

    (on a sidenote: nerfing bursts is im not a fan as since i am usually terring lol) its hard enough to stay alive in the flagroom when the battles are full in there... and when u have a couple spiders and jav rocketting at you and cloakers repping all your bullets you are defenseless too much of the time... u have to fire to kill cloakers or point them out... so u are always weak... and bullets dont damage to kill so u hit someone 2-3 times they dont die and 1 spider shot kills u lol the only saving grace is the portal or burst and with lag sometimes they dont cut it either
    Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

  5. #45
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosshawk
    Thors... absolutely wreck an awesome flag fight... sure everyone has opinions on how levis or cloakers ruin basing but they are a fact of life and ships in the zone... so you learn how to deal with them....

    But when it comes to thors there is no recourse.. no dodging, no repping just boom and your whole freq in the flagroom is dead... then you have to try to get back into a loaded flagroom with 15-20 enemy makes it extrememly tough if they are organized.. and often no one gets back in till the round end...
    You're right that thors can be a bit extreme. Brought them back for a bit of variety, but they tend to get used a bit much. Think it's still interesting to have them used occasionally, but the price is probably much too small, especially now that things such as Festival exist, which allows people to rack up quite a lot of money from a win (and encourages them to use cheaper methods such as Thor in order to win). The idea behind Thor is to have some of those "oh sh--" moments when everyone's suddenly blown up in a surprise move. If it's occasional, it can be fun and light-hearted. But in order to have that impact, it has to occur with a low enough frequency that it isn't annoying.

    (Also, thors can actually be repped, though it's difficult if they're moving fast and aren't expected.)
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
    -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

  6. #46
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    Are decoys too cheap for the usefulness they provide and the amount of time they last? I think they should be more expensive or last a shorter amount of time.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dierienow View Post
    Are decoys too cheap for the usefulness they provide and the amount of time they last? I think they should be more expensive or last a shorter amount of time.
    What do they cost and what do you think they should cost?
    Are there any rebuy time limits, or location restrictions?

  8. #48
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    TW-PubSyst> Item: decoy (A decoy)
    TW-PubSyst> Price: $900
    TW-PubSyst> Targetable: No
    TW-PubSyst> Buyable from spec: No
    TW-PubSyst> Restrictions:
    TW-PubSyst> - Available only for ship(s) : 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
    TW-PubSyst> - Maximum of 2 per life
    TW-PubSyst> - Maximum of 1 every 15 seconds

    Notable information missing: how long the decoy lasts for. Decoys should cost at least 15k for the effect it has and duration IMO. Certainly not $900 lol. You can't even randomly donate that amount it has to be more than $1000.

  9. #49
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    OK, so what would you change?

  10. #50
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    Recently, the settings were changed to allow peeps to switch teams to join the LARGER team. This was a problem a couple of years ago because we had a troll in the pub arena constantly joining the larger team, or the winning team, to make the game more uneven than it was. This killed the fun and made people leave. Well, the troll is back doing the same thing now, because you've changed the settings to allow him to. Please reverse that change immediately. It is killing the pub arena. BTW, the troll is jeffpotatoes. Just watch him for a bit, you'll see what I mean.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim the chin View Post
    Recently, the settings were changed to allow peeps to switch teams to join the LARGER team. This was a problem a couple of years ago because we had a troll in the pub arena constantly joining the larger team, or the winning team, to make the game more uneven than it was. This killed the fun and made people leave. Well, the troll is back doing the same thing now, because you've changed the settings to allow him to. Please reverse that change immediately. It is killing the pub arena. BTW, the troll is jeffpotatoes. Just watch him for a bit, you'll see what I mean.
    Someone give this guy a medal. He single handedly found out what has been killing pub, the troll by the name jeffpotatoes! Wow! Bravo!

    I hope someone puts this fix in ASAP as I would love to see the pub population return to what it was two decades ago.

    Good stuff! Thanks Jim!

    -IxaDor

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by IxaDor View Post
    Someone give this guy a medal. He single handedly found out what has been killing pub, the troll by the name jeffpotatoes! Wow! Bravo!

    I hope someone puts this fix in ASAP as I would love to see the pub population return to what it was two decades ago.

    Good stuff! Thanks Jim!

    -IxaDor
    There's plenty of other things killing pub, and stopping people like jeff from switching to the larger team to create grossly uneven games is not going to return the population to what it was two decades ago, but it will slow the decline to what it was before this recent change.

  13. #53
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    Slight tweak with pub: I reverted part of the change on rocket buys. This change was deeply unpopular with a small but very vocal group. I've once again removed the delay timer on rocket buys, but the price is now $3K, as a compromise. This should keep spamming down, as it becomes a bit painful to buy repeatedly at that price. But, if they wish to do it, they still have the option to save up and then enjoy a small bit of time playing the game as they wish. This is in keeping with the philosophy that pubbux can be used to manipulate pub toward a playstyle you enjoy more but others may enjoy less (at least, within reason), because it roughly represents the time you have put into the game.

    Also, the !switch reward will now scale based on how big a difference there is in player numbers between the two public freqs. Should hopefully incentivize it more. Keep an eye out for people scamming it and please let me know if it can be abused in some unforeseen way.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim the chin View Post
    Recently, the settings were changed to allow peeps to switch teams to join the LARGER team. This was a problem a couple of years ago because we had a troll in the pub arena constantly joining the larger team, or the winning team, to make the game more uneven than it was.
    There was a loose exception in the code that allowed stacking one of the public freqs if there was an equally-sized private freq. I've tightened it up a bit. Let me know if this seems to solve the problem. If you're able to replicate this issue after today, please post how you can do it here, or send me a private message.
    "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
    -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

  14. #54
    Liberal,Basing,Red,Yellow Soldier13's Avatar
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    I remember the good old days when Paladen use to take base in public frequency and chase wolvencreed squadron away. Sometimes Time Lords and Floydians even a few of No Surrender rivalries. Without any of the previous and much improvement and change, am happy to join the Paladen team and game with.
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  15. #55
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    TK bot in pub is getting on my nerves, keeps warning me about TKs.
    If I can kill half the enemy team, at the cost of 1 of my guys, I'm going to do it, and my team is gonna be glad I did.
    I'm winning the game for my team in jav, and the bot switches me to spider. Get the fuck off my ship choice 1984.
    And get rid of that $500 spam / forgiveness crap, I don't care about $500.

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