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Thread: Bullying, my own, and others, needs to stop. Let me be the first to explain why.

  1. #1
    Registered User Fem.'s Avatar
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    Bullying, my own, and others, needs to stop. Let me be the first to explain why.

    SubSpace was a haven for the sad and escapist person I was and I believe it provided and still provides the same to others in similar situations that I was in. Do people forget the depths of the worlds behind the computer screens used to meet and game together on a common server? I believe they do, even if they don't care, then they don't understand, or don't care to understand. Typical? Maybe, but one thing those who manage and host the game seem to forget is SubSpace/SubSpace Continuum's status as the first MMO game. The first. In my opinion, one of the best multiplayer games ever written. That requires that its importance as a monumental game be emphasized by both its managers and its general player population.

    What happened in the SubSpace community is a shame to what the game is and to its place in online gaming community. The bullying on Continuum reached a level of cruelty that no person on the internet should ever be allowed to have directed at them, and despite the ease of believing otherwise for some, there are people on that game with real feelings, real life problems, in real abusive situations, with real capacities for committing crimes against people. The fact that there are real hackers, which makes them real criminals, who play that game, and real criminals who are just generally mean and criminal for the sake of it. The anonymity and variety in the game's population presents the requirement that there be ways to guard the community from the behavior of those individuals. While most staff glossed over their responsibilities to manage the game and its community appropriately, often with complete indifference, others insinuated that the person being bullied "deserved" it, and other staff even participated in the bullying.

    Staff: You do realize that being in the position of authority that you're in, even though Continuum is a free, relatively anonymous game, you, all you, every staff member, has the obligation to act in ways that protect themselves and the game in which they are authorities from contributing to or allowing to happen obviously illegal activities. Everyone knows about the incident with Lil*Piggy, and the F.B.I. was involved because of that, and yet, staff didn't seem to learn their lesson. Staff, if you don't do something about the way people speak and are treated on that game, you are setting yourselves up for a major lawsuit because anyone who owns/runs that game can be seen as improperly managing it and it doesn't need to be a paid for game for legal protections to apply. Do you understand that I could sue for defamation/libel/slander (all three, actually) for having the information said in a private chat spread around the game unchecked by staff, to the point of it being said on the TW radio? You realize I could have sued for the bullying, and more than one of us who has been bullied off of the game could have sued, for there not being proper protections in place and people being mistreated in a public community? Where money is involved due to donations, and the game is run due to donations?

    I want each of you to know that staff's complete irresponsibility when managing the SubSpace community puts Priitk at legal risk because it is his game and he owns it. If a lawsuit is brought against anyone, who would it be brought against? Priitk, because he owns the game it it's ultimately his responsibility to make sure the game is managed properly. So what you people did was put me at risk of suing the everliving shit out of him and people on the game, possibly winning what the game is worth in damages? You are putting Priitk at risk of having his career damaged by something happening on this game. And if Priitk was able to get out of it legally, then the responsibility would fall on the next person's head. Do any of you understand how important it is to be in a position of management of a written, recordable community? Extremely important, legally, and ethically, for everyone involved.

    Instead, you have people who perpetuated the bullying, like danyell!!, bragging on the game about her taking intoxicants on gas station property, saying "I can do what I want, it's my property," and people are defending her obviously illegal stance, and obviously, since staff can't understand the legal implications of their job, would let that go unspoken, right? Or they didn't understand, or thought she wasn't at fault? If I need to sit here and tell a business owner how to run her business properly and legally, outright challenging to take everything I said to her to a lawyer to prove me correct, on a game, one of the main people who bullied me about the sexual abuse of a dog thing...if that dynamic is seen as without error then there is something extremely wrong with the community and with the situation at hand.

    I am not a criminal, and to attempt to ruin my reputation by bringing out such things a.) said in private b.) said in the context of not being voluntary c.) what I actually said at that time was a lie and d.) attempting to mark me as some kind of bad person for the results of actual and real psychological abuse does nothing but be as abuse itself, and abuse does not give the right to abuse in return. I mean, if people really want to know, I witnessed someone do it in a public area, my mother had me below the importance of farm animals, I ended up in fucked up chat rooms as a very underage girl about the subject, and was later, while still underage, talked into doing the act by the man I loved and respected at the time, who turned out to be a psychopathic Iraq war vet who had PTSD from an extended stay in Iraq and was not properly debriefed when he arrived back from his tour of duty. I didn't mention the abuse at the time, nor put it in that context, but I have problems, I know I have problems (that I am working to resolve), but those problems do not give anyone the right to mistreat me like that. Not just with one or two insults, but consistent and ever-present bullying, for years, over that shit. Take the snipes at me all day, but to continue, and bring it to TW Radio? To not post the actual chat texts that show I didn't speak of it with pleasure, joy, or desire, but as some awkward thing that happened to me?

    And now, my computer was hacked after more bullying on this game, and now you people are faced with someone who is capable of handling a thorough lawsuit being bullied the most, but you see, I'm not going to sue, but I can't guarantee someone else won't.

    So, instead, I offer my apology to the people I have mistreated myself on SubSpace, because I have been mean, even trollish, before, and I admit it. I was particularly mean to eN.yoU.Tee.Zee because it was a fondness turned sour. He said for months and months that he was working on a game, gave details, then, when he he offered to show me the game, instead, I was linked to what looked like (and probably was) a malicious website, with disjointed tiles, awkward colors and arrangement, and nothing to do with what he said. This happened in front of people, and no one said a thing. So, instead of being an adult about it, I behaved like a typical 18/19 year old about it and threw a fit because my feelings were hurt. I genuinely cared about his game development. I was interested in the details of his sprites, how he spoke of building this and that, and overall actually interested in what he was saying. So to have him pull a Ted Bundy on me pissed me off, and after yelling at him, started insulting him in weird ways that went out of the bounds of my usual control, insulted his Chron's disease by wishing for him a colostomy bag, talking about punching him in the face if I ever saw him, saying he should have a profile on a gay dating site, said he looked like a pedophile on his gallery, and so on. I said I hated him. I didn't know anything about Ted Bundy at the time, though, just that he was a serial killer. When I learned some of Ted Bundy's details, about his life, where he is from, and so on, and eN.yoU.Tee.Zee is also from Washington who lived with his grandma, and learned of his m.o. when he was killing, it made sense to associate that, because what eN.yoU.Tee.Zee did was mean, and so was what Bundy did as an emotionally mean serial killer. So I'm sorry directly to eN.You.Tee.Zee for being so mean to him afterwards. I specifically behaved differently and meanly towards him, and I'm sorry.

    So, you people let things like that happen on games? Unchecked? How many insults I hurled at him, even saying I'd hit him, went unchecked also, which reflects the poor community management mentioned above. I personally had to talk Manco away from COMMITTING MASS MURDER because he was doing everything else other mass murderers did before committing the act, and you people did not care to correct him or ban him BECAUSE YOU WERE AFRAID OF HIM? Why?

    Are you people trying to get Priitk sued? Are you people trying to get people killed? Hurt? Threatened?

    I don't believe there is a such thing as "stupid." It only is if people create it. So, staff, stop being stupid because you people are at risk of bringing serious legal trouble to the game, and I'm doing you a favor by letting you know.

    Why are you people so irresponsible with the peoples' lives you influence?
    Last edited by Fem.; 06-13-2018 at 07:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    I have no clue who fem. is but I hope you enjoyed your time in pub and welcome to Trench Wars.

  3. #3
    Worth 5 penises LF's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: I didn't read about 70% of this because it was just silly...but I'll comment on the things that did stand out...

    Why do you think an all volunteer staff on a 20+ year old spaceship game needs to involve itself into the private lives of its players? What Danyell smokes behind her family's gas station is none of our concern, nor should it be yours. Do you want us to ban everyone who trolls? Where do we draw the line between trolling/saying not nice things on the internet and truly actionable facts? Half of the stuff you spouted as "evidence" in this very thread isn't even true, such as the FBI getting involved with anything at all. You're not a stupid person, but you are very very gullible and easily baited by the common internet troll. I'm sorry you had to endure such trolling against you, but a very simple ?ignore would have solved your problems as I told you many, many times. If these people switched names to continue harassing you THEN we as the staff could have stepped in on a more official capacity. Every time I was around to actually witness it I protected you and put a stop to it. In the end, a bit of a thicker skin and less picking pointless fights that don't even concern you (EG: Danyell) will do you some good. Hope to see you back in the trenches
    1:wbm> i squint when im angry

    Quote Originally Posted by mtine View Post
    Yo LF, u'll never get me. Trust me, SUCK MY CUNT U MADAFAKING IDIOT!!! Cum at me bro. God, ur even worse than some fags irl's history. commit suicide since u aren't even worth 5 penises. CAN'T TOUCH DIS!!! Jeez man. ALL UR MOFOS THAT U RULE IN THIS GAME SHUD RLY SEE HOW UGLY U R IRL AND HOW DUMB AS WELL. Oh, 1 last thing: CAN'T TOUCH THIS ASS.

  4. #4
    Hellrazor ronaldinho's Avatar
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    lmao i'm dead ......................................
    Thank you for the entertainment

  5. #5
    Hellrazor ronaldinho's Avatar
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    I will personally sue Priitk, it is unacceptable that Danyell is taking drugs and nobody is doing anything. See you in court, Priitk

  6. #6
    wiibimbo mtine's Avatar
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    The only one worth suing here is LF. But meh, don't have time to deal with small potatoes like him, gotta work my ass off so I can become a millionaire one day and shit on people like him.

    And good luck Fem.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    TLDR:

    Someone said horrible things on an online game to people and had horrible things said back, and has inexplicably gone on a huge rant about suing ss for the value of continuum ($0.50?) and trying to check everyone's morals.

    You gave abuse and you took abuse, welcome to the internet. This should probably be moved to useless junk.
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  8. #8
    Cows 4 magic beans! Attacks's Avatar
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    Have you ever played world of warcraft? Destiny? This game is play school incomparrison.
    Please take Priitk to court, he will either a) take notice of this game for the first time in 15 years or b) pull the plug so we can get on with our lives and this game still has a shred of dignity left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fem. View Post
    ... PriitK ... it is his game and he owns it ...
    -Wirah (Method/Mefod)

  10. #10
    Registered User field's Avatar
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    So do you really fuck dogs or was that just some stupid rumor?
    Asking for a friend.
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  11. #11
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    Jennifer Aniston way too good looking to be in this thread

  12. #12
    Leland
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fem. View Post
    SubSpace was a haven for the sad and escapist person I was and I believe it provided and still provides the same to others in similar situations that I was in. Do people forget the depths of the worlds behind the computer screens used to meet and game together on a common server? I believe they do, even if they don't care, then they don't understand, or don't care to understand. Typical? Maybe, but one thing those who manage and host the game seem to forget is SubSpace/SubSpace Continuum's status as the first MMO game. The first. In my opinion, one of the best multiplayer games ever written. That requires that its importance as a monumental game be emphasized by both its managers and its general player population.

    What happened in the SubSpace community is a shame to what the game is and to its place in online gaming community. The bullying on Continuum reached a level of cruelty that no person on the internet should ever be allowed to have directed at them, and despite the ease of believing otherwise for some, there are people on that game with real feelings, real life problems, in real abusive situations, with real capacities for committing crimes against people. The fact that there are real hackers, which makes them real criminals, who play that game, and real criminals who are just generally mean and criminal for the sake of it. The anonymity and variety in the game's population presents the requirement that there be ways to guard the community from the behavior of those individuals. While most staff glossed over their responsibilities to manage the game and its community appropriately, often with complete indifference, others insinuated that the person being bullied "deserved" it, and other staff even participated in the bullying.

    Staff: You do realize that being in the position of authority that you're in, even though Continuum is a free, relatively anonymous game, you, all you, every staff member, has the obligation to act in ways that protect themselves and the game in which they are authorities from contributing to or allowing to happen obviously illegal activities. Everyone knows about the incident with Lil*Piggy, and the F.B.I. was involved because of that, and yet, staff didn't seem to learn their lesson. Staff, if you don't do something about the way people speak and are treated on that game, you are setting yourselves up for a major lawsuit because anyone who owns/runs that game can be seen as improperly managing it and it doesn't need to be a paid for game for legal protections to apply. Do you understand that I could sue for defamation/libel/slander (all three, actually) for having the information said in a private chat spread around the game unchecked by staff, to the point of it being said on the TW radio? You realize I could have sued for the bullying, and more than one of us who has been bullied off of the game could have sued, for there not being proper protections in place and people being mistreated in a public community? Where money is involved due to donations, and the game is run due to donations?

    I want each of you to know that staff's complete irresponsibility when managing the SubSpace community puts Priitk at legal risk because it is his game and he owns it. If a lawsuit is brought against anyone, who would it be brought against? Priitk, because he owns the game it it's ultimately his responsibility to make sure the game is managed properly. So what you people did was put me at risk of suing the everliving shit out of him and people on the game, possibly winning what the game is worth in damages? You are putting Priitk at risk of having his career damaged by something happening on this game. And if Priitk was able to get out of it legally, then the responsibility would fall on the next person's head. Do any of you understand how important it is to be in a position of management of a written, recordable community? Extremely important, legally, and ethically, for everyone involved.

    Instead, you have people who perpetuated the bullying, like danyell!!, bragging on the game about her taking intoxicants on gas station property, saying "I can do what I want, it's my property," and people are defending her obviously illegal stance, and obviously, since staff can't understand the legal implications of their job, would let that go unspoken, right? Or they didn't understand, or thought she wasn't at fault? If I need to sit here and tell a business owner how to run her business properly and legally, outright challenging to take everything I said to her to a lawyer to prove me correct, on a game, one of the main people who bullied me about the sexual abuse of a dog thing...if that dynamic is seen as without error then there is something extremely wrong with the community and with the situation at hand.

    I am not a criminal, and to attempt to ruin my reputation by bringing out such things a.) said in private b.) said in the context of not being voluntary c.) what I actually said at that time was a lie and d.) attempting to mark me as some kind of bad person for the results of actual and real psychological abuse does nothing but be as abuse itself, and abuse does not give the right to abuse in return. I mean, if people really want to know, I witnessed someone do it in a public area, my mother had me below the importance of farm animals, I ended up in fucked up chat rooms as a very underage girl about the subject, and was later, while still underage, talked into doing the act by the man I loved and respected at the time, who turned out to be a psychopathic Iraq war vet who had PTSD from an extended stay in Iraq and was not properly debriefed when he arrived back from his tour of duty. I didn't mention the abuse at the time, nor put it in that context, but I have problems, I know I have problems (that I am working to resolve), but those problems do not give anyone the right to mistreat me like that. Not just with one or two insults, but consistent and ever-present bullying, for years, over that shit. Take the snipes at me all day, but to continue, and bring it to TW Radio? To not post the actual chat texts that show I didn't speak of it with pleasure, joy, or desire, but as some awkward thing that happened to me?

    And now, my computer was hacked after more bullying on this game, and now you people are faced with someone who is capable of handling a thorough lawsuit being bullied the most, but you see, I'm not going to sue, but I can't guarantee someone else won't.

    So, instead, I offer my apology to the people I have mistreated myself on SubSpace, because I have been mean, even trollish, before, and I admit it. I was particularly mean to eN.yoU.Tee.Zee because it was a fondness turned sour. He said for months and months that he was working on a game, gave details, then, when he he offered to show me the game, instead, I was linked to what looked like (and probably was) a malicious website, with disjointed tiles, awkward colors and arrangement, and nothing to do with what he said. This happened in front of people, and no one said a thing. So, instead of being an adult about it, I behaved like a typical 18/19 year old about it and threw a fit because my feelings were hurt. I genuinely cared about his game development. I was interested in the details of his sprites, how he spoke of building this and that, and overall actually interested in what he was saying. So to have him pull a Ted Bundy on me pissed me off, and after yelling at him, started insulting him in weird ways that went out of the bounds of my usual control, insulted his Chron's disease by wishing for him a colostomy bag, talking about punching him in the face if I ever saw him, saying he should have a profile on a gay dating site, said he looked like a pedophile on his gallery, and so on. I said I hated him. I didn't know anything about Ted Bundy at the time, though, just that he was a serial killer. When I learned some of Ted Bundy's details, about his life, where he is from, and so on, and eN.yoU.Tee.Zee is also from Washington who lived with his grandma, and learned of his m.o. when he was killing, it made sense to associate that, because what eN.yoU.Tee.Zee did was mean, and so was what Bundy did as an emotionally mean serial killer. So I'm sorry directly to eN.You.Tee.Zee for being so mean to him afterwards. I specifically behaved differently and meanly towards him, and I'm sorry.

    So, you people let things like that happen on games? Unchecked? How many insults I hurled at him, even saying I'd hit him, went unchecked also, which reflects the poor community management mentioned above. I personally had to talk Manco away from COMMITTING MASS MURDER because he was doing everything else other mass murderers did before committing the act, and you people did not care to correct him or ban him BECAUSE YOU WERE AFRAID OF HIM? Why?

    Are you people trying to get Priitk sued? Are you people trying to get people killed? Hurt? Threatened?

    I don't believe there is a such thing as "stupid." It only is if people create it. So, staff, stop being stupid because you people are at risk of bringing serious legal trouble to the game, and I'm doing you a favor by letting you know.

    Why are you people so irresponsible with the peoples' lives you influence?
    SO WHAT WHO CARES
    Leland

  13. #13
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    Thanks for being honest fem. Sorry you endured abuse here. I know you to be an intelligent nice person at your core. The environment is pretty toxic at times. I agree with you on the anti bullying stance. The things some people say here can be very cruel and can break the nicest of people into saying nasty things back. Anyone at the receiving end of constant attacks who plays the game regularly knows what you mean and how you feel. While I don't know the details of what you speak of personally, I wish you nothing but the best. Unfortunately often on the internet the trolls make the most waves and draw the most attention to the masses while the quieter decent folks draw less attention to themselves but make much more of a one on one impression to friends they make. Hope to still see you in game sometimes and if not know some of us like you a lot.
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    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    idiot who brings abusive comments on them self by being an idiot it siding with an idiot who brought abusive comments on them self too, by the looks of it. TW summer romance 2018.
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  15. #15
    Cows 4 magic beans! Attacks's Avatar
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    I think the issue is people just take the harsh banter of this game personally, in the early days I would argue with everyone who said ez in public when they killed me. It brought me nothing but stress. Now if someone takes the piss and says my mum is fat. I'll just say " yeah shes put on a few extra pounds lately" have a laugh about it. I Don't go super defensive, or say nothing and go around making out im a victim of horrible abuse.

    I'll tell you something personal 1) because it gets it off my chest 2) because I dont care.

    I was massively bullied in school, I used to say I was a victim and it was all everyone elses fault and why is everyone so mean to me?

    Then I realised I used to grass everyone up, say stuff I thought was funny but was really offensive to people.

    And in hind sight I deserved all the bullying I got.

    If you are getting abuse in this game ( on a consistant level, not just a odd comment in pub) you are doing something, saying something or acting like something that is really rubbing people up the wrong way.

    You can either attack me back, or say your being trolled but if you really want to better yourself and be the better man or women have a little self reflection first.

  16. #16
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
    idiot who brings abusive comments on them self by being an idiot it siding with an idiot who brought abusive comments on them self too, by the looks of it. TW summer romance 2018.
    Have a heart and stop being the epitome of the classic troll you are Dicko. Everyone scratches their head over your constant negative Nancy posts here for years now while you don't even play the game. If it was a few posts as an old returning player piping in on something or to say hi or to take a jab it would be different but literally look at your post history dude. It is 98% full of attacking and whine w/ cheese. facepalm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Attacks View Post
    I think the issue is people just take the harsh banter of this game personally, in the early days I would argue with everyone who said ez in public when they killed me. It brought me nothing but stress. Now if someone takes the piss and says my mum is fat. I'll just say " yeah shes put on a few extra pounds lately" have a laugh about it. I Don't go super defensive, or say nothing and go around making out im a victim of horrible abuse.

    I'll tell you something personal 1) because it gets it off my chest 2) because I dont care.

    I was massively bullied in school, I used to say I was a victim and it was all everyone elses fault and why is everyone so mean to me?

    Then I realised I used to grass everyone up, say stuff I thought was funny but was really offensive to people.

    And in hind sight I deserved all the bullying I got.

    If you are getting abuse in this game ( on a consistant level, not just a odd comment in pub) you are doing something, saying something or acting like something that is really rubbing people up the wrong way.

    You can either attack me back, or say your being trolled but if you really want to better yourself and be the better man or women have a little self reflection first.
    You are way over simplifying this issue. Most everyone was bullied in school to some extent and most everyone in school was a bully at some extent too. This is not about mom jokes. It is much more. There are cruel people out here who say the most mean things imaginable. For example eph's announcing he has terminal cancer on a heart felt post and being attacked in game by idiots saying good I hope you die soon. Or people who pretend to gain your confidence and learn info about you that is deeply personal who wind of doing exactly as fem mentioned happened to her. I'm not sure about the FBI thing but laws were broken when the subspace sluts page was made by a troll out here. To turn true bullying around and blame the victim is shallow and shortsighted. Can you imagine people saying blacks deserve their racism because they were too uppity or that jews deserved their anti Semitism because they responded improperly to hateful criticisms or gays deserve to be beaten because of how they act socially? These are examples of hate that can be classified as bullying in real life situations. The internet is a reflection of these same human traits which are often magnified greatly because of the anonymous nature of the web. Cyber bullying is very real. I have experienced it daily myself. Fem was sharing her feelings honestly and in pain as any sensitive person can see. While I do not know her reasoning and situation and doubt a law suit would succeed there have been cases of online bullying going to the courts and technically she is correct in what she mentions. Please people do not cyber bully.. real harm can be done.
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  17. #17
    Cows 4 magic beans! Attacks's Avatar
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    This post states about the
    bullying and abuse. Not racism, sexism or anti-semitism. Jessup nice try at rallying the SJW warriors to your cause and making me out to be some sort of right wing racist

    Your trying to chuck any abuse you get into the racism, or discrimination bracket so you can feel you are completely blameless rather than accepting why people have fallen out with you because you have acted like a idiot in this game, nothing to do with what orientation you have.
    Tell me have I ever insulted you over your preferances, gender or race?

    I just don't see in public people dropping everything to start attacking you unless you have wound them up first
    .

  18. #18
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    Have a heart and stop being the epitome of the classic troll you are Dicko. Everyone scratches their head over your constant negative Nancy posts here for years now while you don't even play the game. If it was a few posts as an old returning player piping in on something or to say hi or to take a jab it would be different but literally look at your post history dude. It is 98% full of attacking and whine w/ cheese. facepalm....
    Given I was relatively active up to about 18 months ago means the majority of what you've said is stupid - just because I wasn't playing 10 hours a day still back then as some of us have adult lives doesn't count as being inactive. There is literally nothing left on this forum to actively contribute that isn't trash, so it's more fun winding you up these days. I have literally no beef with anyone on this game except you because it's enjoyable to wind you up.
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  19. #19
    Registered User Jessup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attacks View Post
    This post states about the
    bullying and abuse. Not racism, sexism or anti-semitism. Jessup nice try at rallying the SJW warriors to your cause and making me out to be some sort of right wing racist

    Your trying to chuck any abuse you get into the racism, or discrimination bracket so you can feel you are completely blameless rather than accepting why people have fallen out with you because you have acted like a idiot in this game, nothing to do with what orientation you have.
    Tell me have I ever insulted you over your preferances, gender or race?

    I just don't see in public people dropping everything to start attacking you unless you have wound them up first
    .
    You fail to understand the definition of bullying.....it absolutely is tied into what I stated.

    "Bullying is the use of force, threat, or coercion to abuse, intimidate or aggressively dominate others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception, by the bully or by others, of an imbalance of social or physical power, which distinguishes bullying from conflict.[1] Behaviors used to assert such domination can include verbal harassment or threat, physical assault or coercion, and such acts may be directed repeatedly towards particular targets. Rationalizations of such behavior sometimes include differences of social class, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, appearance, behavior, body language, personality, reputation, lineage, strength, size or ability."

    The Nazis spread rumors that Jews were dirty and lazy. Those fostered a belief that Jews carried lice and spread disease. It wasn’t long before Jews were moved into ghettos separate from the rest of the people. Ghettos were soon surrounded by barbed wire and guards to keep “dirty” people inside. The same can be said about racism in the UK and America towards blacks. The same applies to lgbtq people. It absolutely is in the same vein of abuse.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessup View Post
    The same applies to lgbtq people. It absolutely is in the same vein of abuse.
    erm, no.

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