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Thread: Appeal TWDT-J Terrorist vs Blind

  1. #1
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    Appeal TWDT-J Terrorist vs Blind

    Spikey having 11 deaths..
    spikey has changed to spectator mode - +1 death
    And had 10 deaths on F2, which made him go 11 deaths. Guy even killed some on his '10th' death.
    Major Crisis

  2. #2
    Shaun An UnKnOwN KiLLa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Crisis View Post
    Spikey having 11 deaths..
    spikey has changed to spectator mode - +1 death
    And had 10 deaths on F2, which made him go 11 deaths. Guy even killed some on his '10th' death.
    denied lol
    AKA Shaun
    ----------------------

  3. #3
    Registered User skyforger's Avatar
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    Code:
    Result of Blind vs. Terrorist: 44 - 50   19 Aug 2018 20:55:38,---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+----.
    |                               K |    D |   TK |    Rating | LO |
    |                          ,------+------+------+-----------+----+
    | Blind                   /    41 |   50 |    2 |       272 |  2 |
    +------------------------'        |      |      |           |    |
    |  24                           9 |   10 |    0 |       101 |  0 |
    |  finite                      10 |   10 |    1 |        95 |  2 |
    |  Gamma88                      2 |    6 |    0 |       SUB |  0 |
    |  Geio                        10 |    7 |    1 |       SUB |  0 |
    |  kado                         5 |    4 |    0 |       SUB |  0 |
    |  MaiTo_cHi                    5 |   10 |    0 |        76 |  0 |
    |  Major Crisis                 0 |    3 |    0 |       SUB |  0 |
    +---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+----+
    |                          ,------+------+------+-----------+----+
    | Terrorist               /    47 |   44 |    2 |       531 |  2 |
    +------------------------'        |      |      |           |    |
    |  Commodo                     11 |    7 |    1 |       124 |  0 |
    |  dreamwin                     6 |    9 |    0 |       106 |  0 |
    |  gilder                       4 |   10 |    0 |        74 |  0 |
    |  maketso                     13 |    8 |    1 |       114 |  1 |
    |  spikey                      13 |   10 |    0 |       113 |  1 |
    `---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+----'
    Terrorist wins this game! MVP: maketso!
    This game?

  4. #4
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    Yea, Vys knows about it...
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    Probably a DC before round started. Had no impact on the game.

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    -Wirah (Method/Mefod)

  7. #7
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    Probably a DC before round started. Had no impact on the game.
    It was mid game, he was around 4 or 5 deaths. And yes it did. Spikey kliled 2-3x after his 10th death. How is that no impact on a 50-44 game...
    Major Crisis

  8. #8
    Shaun An UnKnOwN KiLLa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wirah View Post
    is that you MEFOD? LOL
    AKA Shaun
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  9. #9
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    APPEAL APPROVED



    I'll list my log below and then talk about my findings as to why the appeal has been approved.


    Code:
    P  MatchBot6> Welcome to TWDT-J, Teams: Blind vs. Terrorist. We are currently in round 1: playing, 14 minutes played. Score: 38 - 42P  MatchBot6> This game has blueout enabled.
    P Major Cris>  YO this bot is error
    P        vys> how
    P Major Cris>  spikey has changed to spectator mode - +1 death
    P Major Cris>  But spikey doesnt die with 10..
    P Major Cris>  He has 9 deaths
    P Major Cris>  and that +1 = 10
      MaiTo_cHi is out. 5 wins 10 losses
      spikey is out. 13 wins 10 losses
    P        vys> did you get a +1
    P     spikey> im not sure
    P     spikey> was i supposed to
      24 is out. 9 wins 10 losses
    P        vys> !last 40
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> rofl should do it
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> would be funny
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> that would be funny
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> lol
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> stead
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> he afk posting on forums again
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> LOL
    P TW-Guard11> T   Cornflux> no myfreq?
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> do a help
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> whos gamma88
    P TW-Guard11> T   kado> someone said cape
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> oh
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> o shit rly
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> the dice creator
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> my ***** cape
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> wow
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> i remember right b4 dice i joined his squad
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> blueish
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> he was a beast in eg
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> type ?squadowner blueish
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> for fact check
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> nice history lesson
    P TW-Guard11>   Major Crisis has been substituted by Geio, with 7 deaths left
    P TW-Guard11>   Gamma88 has been substituted by kado, with 4 deaths left
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> k now i'm weirded out
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> LOL
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> shouldn't have to wait 10 mins to be added to the team i am in
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> ??
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> mark is here
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> for u bro
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> hey markus
    P TW-Guard11> T   Unlimited> did myfreq blind for 10 mins and even doing help
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> all the subs have been used
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> man
    P TW-Guard11>   spikey has changed to spectator mode - +1 death
    P TW-Guard11> T   shaun> can i sub in for spikey if im not on ther team ffs
    P TW-Guard11> T   babe ruth> geio changed the tides
    P TW-Guard11> T   Holy Ship> ouch
    P TW-Guard11> T   Lews Therin> mebe not
    P TW-Guard11> T   babe ruth> sigh
      Geio is out. 10 wins 7 losses
    P        vys> strange, did he come back and sub in
    P Major Cris>  Nah just came back 
    T  omega red> holy lol
    E    Commodo> host?
    P Major Cris>  I demand a rematch. 
      finite has changed to spectator mode - +1 death
      finite is out. 10 wins 10 losses
      Blueout has been disabled. You can speak in public now.
      Result of Blind vs. Terrorist: 44 - 50   19 Aug 2018 20:55:38
      ,---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+----.
      |                               K |    D |   TK |    Rating | LO |
      |                          ,------+------+------+-----------+----+
      | Blind                   /    41 |   50 |    2 |       272 |  2 |
      +------------------------'        |      |      |           |    |
      |  24                           9 |   10 |    0 |       101 |  0 |
      |  finite                      10 |   10 |    1 |        95 |  2 |
      |  Gamma88                      2 |    6 |    0 |       SUB |  0 |
      |  Geio                        10 |    7 |    1 |       SUB |  0 |
      |  kado                         5 |    4 |    0 |       SUB |  0 |
      |  MaiTo_cHi                    5 |   10 |    0 |        76 |  0 |
      |  Major Crisis                 0 |    3 |    0 |       SUB |  0 |
      +---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+----+
      |                          ,------+------+------+-----------+----+
      | Terrorist               /    47 |   44 |    2 |       531 |  2 |
      +------------------------'        |      |      |           |    |
      |  Commodo                     11 |    7 |    1 |       124 |  0 |
      |  dreamwin                     6 |    9 |    0 |       106 |  0 |
      |  gilder                       4 |   10 |    0 |        74 |  0 |
      |  maketso                     13 |    8 |    1 |       114 |  1 |
      |  spikey                      13 |   10 |    0 |       113 |  1 |
      `---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+----'
      Terrorist wins this game!
           shaun> APPEAL
       omega red> LOL wow.
             vys> yes?
         mcvicar> ?
      MVP: maketso!
           shaun> LAG APPEAL
          finite> rofl
              24> how spikey get 11 deaths?
              24> he got a +1 for lag
       omega red> says 10 there
           shaun> wait till the forum hears about this!!!
              24> then got 10 other lives
      Major Cris> spikey has changed to spectator mode - +1 death
              24> appeal
      Major Cris> .And 10 on f2..
              24> it was game changer
            Zizu> ur negative record was a game changer
      Major Cris> .Spikey still killed 2x when he was on 9
             vys> did he sub in after scorereset?
      Major Cris> or "10"
      Major Cris> No, no sub or sanything
              24> he was here from start
             vys> i mean !lagout
              24> he got 11 lives
              24> no
             vys> was he here on go?
              24> he got +1 mid game
         maketso> you have a guy with 560 ping lagging out without +1
      Major Cris> Nah this was mid game
         maketso> and you appeal lag?
    P       Geio> he legit got 11 lives LOL
       omega red> how do you get 11 lives?
           shaun> LOL MAKETSO
           shaun> WE APPEALING THE 11 deaths BRO
             vys> Send your appeal in writing via forums and we will review it
      Major Cris> Maketso dumb as shit
         maketso> spikey so good you gotta kill him 11 times relax
              24> was game changer for sure

    As you can see from my log alove. I entered the arena when it was a really close game. I immediately spectated Spikey, as he was the person in question. 24 and Geio was rushing him from the right side of the map and they were 2fered (Spikey survived). and then Spikey was suicided to take him out. He was on 11-9 (on F2) when I entered arena and was watching him, he died out with an extra 2 kills, as well as assisting 2-3 kills.
    Also, the +1 death for finite at the end worked, but clearly didn't for spikey.

    I then checked the lagout handler to see how many lagouts had been used. My theory was that he left arena and came back after go; by passing the scorereset. But that would of meant he would of used 2 lagouts and not 1 lagout.

    This bot error has clearly had a big impact on the end result of the game, as it could of gone either way. Therefore the appeal has been approved.

    Blind will rematch Terrorist next week 30 minutes before TWDT starts - Sunday 26th August @ 14:30 EST
    Best warbird to ever enter trenchwars

  10. #10
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    'they was 2fered'

    Such a northerner.
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  11. #11
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    southern fairy
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  12. #12
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vys View Post
    southern fairy
    Meet me at the Watford Gap service station in 3 hours and we'll settle this.
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  13. #13
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    This log doesn't answer the question of whether Spikey dced before round. Who was the host for the duration of the game? If this question cannot be ruled in or out by an impartial official, then I have no idea how this decision can stand.

    I have never seen a bot not accurately record a lagout death. Is it even possible? If a bot is capable of not recording a lagout death, is it capable of not resetting a player's score at the beginning of the round?

    Secondly, saying a single event was pivotal in the outcome of the game is pure conjecture. I could just as well say that 24 & Geio hunting Spikey more aggressively made the game closer.

    We won by a wider margin of error than 1 death/kill. That is an absolute fact.

    Blind are cynically exaggerating this grievance because they started a losing line. They made two positive substitutes during the game. Thus they go into the replay game at a significant tactical advantage.

    Let's not let the league descend into farce, granting appeals based on conjecture and minor complaints.

  14. #14
    Registered User skyforger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    This log doesn't answer the question of whether Spikey dced before round. Who was the host for the duration of the game? If this question cannot be ruled in or out by an impartial official, then I have no idea how this decision can stand.

    I have never seen a bot not accurately record a lagout death. Is it even possible? If a bot is capable of not recording a lagout death, is it capable of not resetting a player's score at the beginning of the round?

    Secondly, saying a single event was pivotal in the outcome of the game is pure conjecture. I could just as well say that 24 & Geio hunting Spikey more aggressively made the game closer.

    We won by a wider margin of error than 1 death/kill. That is an absolute fact.

    Blind are cynically exaggerating this grievance because they started a losing line. They made two positive substitutes during the game. Thus they go into the replay game at a significant tactical advantage.

    Let's not let the league descend into farce, granting appeals based on conjecture and minor complaints.
    The impartial official comment is really out of place. Vys is a league OP and was attending the incident, he is on neither of the teams. Even further - this was not a 1 person decision, Terrorist's take I got from you, Commodo, was presented to all the league OPs to take into account in this decision. If the time of the replay is problematic, feel free to agree to different slot as long as the league is not delayed further and a host is able to be present.

    As to the bug, we are not sure what caused it yet. Seeing as this is the first time this has happened in multiple seasons (bots have not changed since last TWDTs) it should be obscure enough. What qan has discovered so far is that being over arena lag limits or manually speccing results in a lagout with a +1 death penalty, like the message Spikey had. While being over the bot enforced lag limits, but within arena lag limits, carries no +1 death penalty (which should not have been the case here).

    Edit: Some information we have behind our decision. Spikey's lagout didn't happen before start but in mid game. After he should have been eliminated already, he instead managed to get an important 2fer and possibly eliminate a 9* player for what might have been the game changer. Thus, while the match score difference is more than 1 death, there is a realistic chance the match could have went different had it not been for spikey's performance before his 11th death.
    Last edited by skyforger; 08-20-2018 at 08:27 AM.

  15. #15
    anime master Turban's Avatar
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    Post

    If you have a disconnection right before the match starts then your score does not get reset which is what happened here, and I would have personally denied the appeal in an instant. There has been numerous cases like this in the past and they were all denied for a good reason.

    This sets a predicament where you can essentially get nearly guaranteed replays in close matches by having one player disconnect conveniently from the match because apparently most of the player base is incapable of doing simple math and checking current score in relation to enemy deaths.

    The standard procedure for appeals is to get a full log from the host which includes things such as when players left and entered arena, kills and deaths, and so forth to get the full story instead of a partial log that proves absolutely nothing. I have never heard of a bot malfunctioning and not accurately keeping track of player deaths in a javelin match, for your information, and I find it highly unlikely that the bots have suddenly started breaking in this way.

    .. just my two cents anyway, not that it matters much here, but I would assume staff has been trained to start full logs when hosting a league match.
    Last edited by Turban; 08-20-2018 at 08:09 AM.

  16. #16
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    yep its pretty obvious he just reentered arena on go and started the game with his record showing 0-1. pls fix this and deny the appeal

  17. #17
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    If he dced and re entered the arena before the score reset he would of lagged out twice. Not once. He was there on go and lagged out during the game and was given a +1 death. That's when he returned back into the game (using the only lagout)

    Spikey killed 2 times when he should of been in spec and set up 2-3 kills on the last life. The bot error of not speccing him had a huge impact on the end result of the game.

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    I mean it's pretty simple if you add up blinds total kills they have 41, terrorist tk'd twice so that brings it to 43. Now terrorist has 2 lagouts on the scorebox, maketso and spikey. We already know based on above that spikey +1'd. This brings us to 44, which is blinds total kill score (50-44 loss). If maketso +1'd like spikey did when he lagged out there was an error and the game should be replayed since they should have gotten 45 kills.

    Also want to mention I've never seen this happen and I've played a lot of games... anyway just figure out whether maketso lost a life when he lagged out and you'll get your answer

    Edit: mixed up names (stupid phone)
    Last edited by zidane; 08-20-2018 at 09:57 AM.

  19. #19
    Plade
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    This is actually pretty smart thinking from a player such as Zidane.

    And the 2nd player lagging out was actually me, not Commodo, and I didnt get the +1

    Now when are we denying this appeal?

  20. #20
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    1) There was no moderator to confirm or deny Spikey's score at the start of the round. Neither is there a log (which should be standard procedure.)

    2) Let's also question the "unfairness" of what happened. Spikey lagged out. Lag outs don't actually carry a 1 death penalty. Hence why, if the bot catches you lagging and specs you, you don't get the +1. Only speccing to avoid death carries the +1, but the bot cannot discern a player deliberately speccing from a player being specced by the server limits. In order to really justify this appeal, then, you'd need to also prove that Spikey deliberately specced to avoid death. That is the only time when the bot should award a +1. Again, this cannot be proven, and isn't even claimed by Blind.

    3) Aside from any technical arguments, let's talk practically. Can we really say that one death of Spikey accounts for a 6 kill deficit? Spikey is our 7* and was killing at a rate of 1.3:1. Why assume he suddenly became 5x as good? If this was a 50-49 game, or even 50-48 game, fair enough. But let's be reasonable.

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