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Thread: Fun Fact - Nasty cheated to get their playoff spot (Official Appeal)

  1. #61
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    Uh oh a lot of shit been going on in this thread

    But after reading the rules and appeal I believe we can all agree that according to the rules this appeal should no doubt be granted

  2. #62
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    I don't really care the outcome of this since I won't be able to show either way for the next few weeks, but this thread is funny and I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

    I just have to say that from an inside perspective of being in Nasty, Cyclone was a total detriment to the team, even when we were not playing him, during games the guy was always talking shit to his own teammates in the team frequency and was an obvious troll that should have been removed from Nasty, if TWD staff could have allowed it, but instead it was just decided that it was OK to never play him.. I don't get the point that we had to keep him.. but whatever, this guy was a drama starter for our team and we obviously all just did our best to ignore him during games.

    As for that 7* rule.. in ANY league.. really?? I'm ranked 7 in wb and base every year without ever playing a single game.. is there even players that exists that are not a 7* in at least one league?
    How old is this rule? Maybe the rating system was less of a joke back in the days but finding players online that are less than 7 in all leagues when it's time to borrow might not even be possible, the fact that destruct was a 6* in base was already bad enough so I'm not sure the point of crying about his 7* jav rating skills which had no impact the game?

    Regardless, we always asked both the staff and the opposing team for permission to borrow a player before going ahead and each time it was approved... so Nasty did nothing wrong here,
    If this appeal somehow gets approved, that's just abuse of a poorly written rule that is both stupid and outdated, which either way was overruled by the Staff that allowed us to borrow the players.

    Take care

  3. #63
    Major Crisis/Ownix Major Crisis's Avatar
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    I dont think anyone knew about this "cant be 7+* in any other league" without putting the rules thread with u.. Its a dumb rule anyway, because without a doubt if someone is a 7* in jav, it has no impact on base. Most of these 7* javs have played many seasons and they dont care about base or really suck at it.

    The thing I am struggling more with is the lack of communication from this so called "league team". I havent read before sunday 5 pm that Cyclone was clear to get benched all TWDT long. Why has this not been communicated with the outside world? Thats just the biggest bullshit ever. And as you can see with this 'staff allowing to borrow someone' is kinda mixed too. There is no 'pure' rule about it anymore it seems. I feel like Henry, Mark, vys and skyforger all say different stuff (I assume they are all in this 'team'). How the hell can you make sure a league is run smoothly if four people do different things? Ogron might have done some crazy shit in the past, but he never had issues like this. Rules were pretty clear to it, or the issues wouldnt even go this far. And why? Because he was basicly solo running it and there couldnt be multiple things said. Like I said before, this once again shows that Henry and Vys cant run this league properly.
    The things they did is copying rules, set a zoner and start the bots. With all the other stuff they have had maybe 5% part of it.
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  4. #64
    Registered User olde's Avatar
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    Rules are rules, get these bums outta here.. I bet if it was a attack's teams you would have thrown him to the wolf's already guys out here dik riding racka... Just another case of tw dik riding disease the down fall of this zone and squading all together..
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  5. #65
    Hellrazor ronaldinho's Avatar
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    Even if I doubt the game is affecting mental health of many players, maybe 1-2 last season, I think turban's post is the good conclusion, this is a minor league with almost no rules, we shouldn't care that much. The only thing to do next time is to not allow Cyclone to sign up to avoid this. I rather find an other thing to do than speccing a minor league every sunday night, thought that was a big deal lol.
    Good luck to all teams who gonna faces the mighty Power, and hope to see Terrorist back next season.
    Trasher> lol hellrazor

  6. #66
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    Allow me to make this very simple to any staff member viewing this thread.

    1) Two points separated 4 teams vying for playoffs. Therefore it is completely justified to make sure everyone followed the rules in achieving those points.
    2) Borrowing is a privilege - generally a team should win or lose based on the players drafted by their captain.
    3) The rules - written by Ogron and copied by vys - state clearly that a borrowed player cannot be a 7* in any league.
    4) Nasty borrowed a 7*+ on four occasions, including in two victories.
    5) Illegal line ups = forfeit.
    6) Staff gave ad hoc permission to Nasty to bypass rules and bench Cyclone (a rostered/active player of Nasty's.)
    7) The difference between adding Destruct and adding Cyclone is plausibly the difference between winning and losing.
    8) Giving permission to bench Cyclone is not the same as saying "borrow anyone, no matter their rating".
    9) There is no such thing as a 24 hour appeal rule, despite the low iQ arguments to the contrary.
    10) Power threw their last game against Nasty. This isn't disputed by anyone.
    11) Ogron negged in all but one of his TWDTD performances (this last point isn't exactly crucial.)

    Conclusion: Nasty broke the rules, but they did so with the partial approval of certain staff members.

    The only fair outcome is some kind of head to head between Terrorist and Nasty, with the winners in each league progressing to Playoffs.

    Hopefully that sounds fair to Trasher and Turban as well?
    Last edited by MHz; 09-05-2018 at 06:28 PM.

  7. #67
    Sig Inspired By Dreamwin Claushouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHz View Post
    Ogron negged in all but one of his TWDTD performances (this last point isn't exactly crucial.)
    Do you not... understand how math works?

    I went 7-6, 8-9, 6-10, 7-6, 8-10, and 14-4, for a total of 50-45, in a ship I no longer practice, after finishing 2nd in kills the last two seasons in WB with 100+ kill seasons.

    Don't make me pull out a calculator and embarrass you about how many times I've eliminated you in basing leagues, because the number is real ugly.

    I highly recommend you shut up and move on.
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  8. #68
    Sig Inspired By Dreamwin Claushouse's Avatar
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    lol this guy Commodo is still talking shit to me in-game, unreal. here's your entire basing career in 30 seconds:

    TWDT-B


    2018 -- eliminated by me in Week 5 must win play-in
    2017 -- lost in Semi-Finals
    2017 -- eliminated by me in Week 5 must win play-in
    2016 -- missed playoffs
    2016 -- eliminated by me in Semi-Finals
    2015 -- lost in Quarter-Finals
    2014 -- missed playoffs
    2013 -- eliminated by me in Quarter-Finals


    TWLB


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    S20 -- i beat you in the Semi-Final and i beat you in the Final
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    Congrats man, you went 1-7 against me in playoff series and must win play-in games, and you cheated to get that 1 win.


    You're real clutch.
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  9. #69
    Registered User Ricko's Avatar
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    fuck claus, did you really need to go back through the TWL site and TWL forum to sweep through every scorebox to prove a point? You need to cool off with getting so pent up over a petty argument or you'll have an early grave my friend.
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  10. #70
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    Recommend both team captains take Commodo's compromise offer into consideration and agree to it for changes to schedule to be made. That should be fun and in spirit of the competition. Otherwise an official ruling on whether to forfeit the games should follow asap. Goes without saying that staff members implicated in breaking league rules in question should be abstaining from voting on the matter.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyforger View Post
    Recommend both team captains take Commodo's compromise offer into consideration and agree to it for changes to schedule to be made. That should be fun and in spirit of the competition. Otherwise an official ruling on whether to forfeit the games should follow asap. Goes without saying that staff members implicated in breaking league rules in question should be abstaining from voting on the matter.
    if you people care at all about the future of this game please never let this guy be in charge of anything again

  12. #72
    Ez RaCka's Avatar
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    the losers will always expose themselves
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  13. #73
    give life, take death qan's Avatar
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    This appeal has been denied.

    First, a precedent has been set to require appeals to be submitted within 24 hours. (This will be codified in future seasons to make it clearer.) Having an unlimited duration to make an appeal encourages anyone who doesn't like a later outcome to attempt to find justifications for replays in games from several weeks past. This doesn't add value to the league, and makes things overly complicated for league ops.

    The rules for TWDT have always been slightly loose. This has advantages and disadvantages. On one hand, it allows ops to make calls to promote high-quality play. On the other, it opens up issues of accountability and fairness. The rules have not been changed or reviewed thoroughly in quite some time. A review and updating of the rules before another season runs is a clear necessity.

    On behalf of league ops and staff generally, I'd like to apologize for not having the rules more clearly stated, and for remaining silent on some issues.

    The most difficult is the case of Cyclone. As Ogron clearly demonstrated in past leagues, Cyclone intentionally throws games. He does just well enough to make you think he's not throwing, when in fact he is. He was a legend in EG for doing this for years. In TW base games it's particularly obvious ... he shoots walls and intentionally rams team mines with the intention of causing game-changing TKs. And the smoking gun, at least for me: I have personally seen him admit, in public, that he gets joy out of lowering the quality of games for the "elites" of SS, whom he despises. It was a bad mistake to allow him to play TWDT, and extremely unfortunate that he had to be drafted by one of the teams. However, he hasn't broken any TWDT rules specifically, so banning him from the league seemed extreme and unfair, especially as letting him in was our mistake in the first place. So, instead, the decision was made to allow him to remain on the bench, and to allow borrows to make a full game even in the case of Cyclone being available to play. (NOTE: He will not be playing in future TW leagues. You can call out #justiceforcyclone if you'd like. He's admitted to intentionally trying to ruin leagues, and has no plans to change, no matter what he tells you. He has no place in any TW league whatsoever.)

    The next decision involved borrowing. Two rules regarding borrowing have been suspended at the discretion of league ops this season, in the interest of playing quality games.

    First is that borrows can only be made in the case that it would result in a forfeit. So for example, in a base game, if team A has 5 players and team B has 8, team A can borrow a maximum of one (and only one) player to make 6v8 and prevent a forfeit. Then the game is played normally. I think we can all agree that this rule is a bit harsh, and comes from an era when show rates were higher and competition was more vicious, with winning at any cost being more important than playing a good match. Almost nobody is interested in playing a 6v8 or even 7v8 game, especially in 2018. It's just not competitive or interesting. So, with the agreement of both captains, borrows were allowed even when an automatic forfeit would not result.

    The other borrowing rule that was temporarily suspended states that a player who is 7* or above in any league can't be borrowed, even if they're 6* in the league in which they are to be borrowed. Each time this was done, both captains agreed to suspend this rule. Also, considering that in practice 6* really means anything from 1* to 6*, and is a face-saving "everyone gets a trophy" measure to make people feel as though they're not below average, this rule makes even less sense: someone could be a 7* Jav, rated 6* in base but in actuality be a 4* baser.

    Apologies that this has taken so long, but at least we've had another good drama thread to look forward to reading over morning coffee, right? Thanks for your patience.
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  14. #74
    Hellrazor ronaldinho's Avatar
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    Quality post, I'm convinced and thanks for taking problems into consideration for future leagues. Just my 2 cents please don't insert the double elimination bracket, nobody want thunder/cobra every season, if one lose in semi then good bye it's someone else turn.
    Trasher> lol hellrazor

  15. #75
    's 1959 manteca paradise!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaCka View Post
    the losers will always expose themselves
    U Guys should be the disqualified u fkn idiet cheeter idiet fuk
    big sean> L!O!L!
    Cres> ?
    Cres> its mine now.
    destruct <> WATER U DEWIN
    paradise> Dewin? Ill take that. using that now
    destruct <> u welcum
    thix> Lol this shit is ban hannah's.
    cripple> ?
    paradise> ?
    Cres> You can keep that one.

  16. #76
    All Aboard Voth's Avatar
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    best part of this thread was ogron thinking he holds a candle to mhz.



    (for the record, i'm way worse than both of them)
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  17. #77
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    Glad to see Qan step in and make the right call. I heard Henry was of the same mind as well.

    Good job staff.
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  18. #78
    Hellrazor ronaldinho's Avatar
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    Don't makes me laugh, Saari has been the main problem of this drama and qan cleverly ignored this fact. I wonder if the dude is the retard brother of qan's wife or literaly his boyfriend. He is incredibly stupid and unable. The fact "rules are short and lack of clarity" doesn't excuse the fact a team was allowed to cheat thanks to LC's approval. Staff has been horendous during this shit, the only good part is the clear conclusion made by qan.
    Trasher> lol hellrazor

  19. #79
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    Why it wasn't cheating:

    Ok so 'Mhz' posts 4 games, one of them quite recent (but >24 hours) the rest happening weeks ago or whatever. One of qan's replies dealt with this fact, which I thought was not necessary because the game in question happened two days before, the rest of the games were just further examples. Maybe an argument could be made that this thread and discussion could've happened weeks earlier but since it didn't that time has past. Surely if someone's reporting on multiple events or situations then they're allowed to report after the most recent, giving some leeway because it was only 48 hours after. Either way I didn't consider it a mitigating or supporting factor

    Next is the question of what crime was committed. RaCka either knowingly circumvented the rules (seems likely) or was unaware of a supposedly outdated (and copy + pasted) rule that states any borrowed 5 or 6* player must be a straight 6 star across all leagues. This of course is incongruent with the meaning of the rating system: either we accept that the rating system (in its current implementation.. there should be more ratings available according to consensus) is flawed in at least one way pertaining to overall skill level or the rating is an all-encompassing assessment of skill in a particular ship and the rule doesn't make sense (because if it's decided that you're a 6 that presumably takes into account all possibly relevant factors). Furthermore, why should this rule apply only to these two ratings? The thing about measuring human ability is that it usually falls into a normal distrbution.. so naturally there could only be a few 10 stars but a lot of 6 and 7*'s. If you're trying to make a curve it makes more sense to have more segments of that curve, like if there was a 1-10 system there are now 10 segments instead of 5, allowing more accurate distribution. Out of 100 there's even more segments, but 10 should be fine. It should take extreme effort to reach either a 1 or a 10, not because those numbers mean anything, but because it's necessarily a comparison. A 1 should be many times rarer than a 3 or 5 as should a 10. Most people can rate people instinctively well enough, but if you now have to sort people in groups by skill level it gets a bit harder, especially with more people. The more people the more difficult, which can be circumvented by the ladder process. This game doesn't have many players so you could probably group them all from 1 to 10 kind of like you do now.

    Seeing as how the rule is useless it doesn't make sense to enforce it if the desire is to encourage people to play and see the best teams playing. The onus should be on staff to make the rules sensible and rather impervious to abuse. If anything it's a jab at staff for having useless rules. Ogron said the rule is a carry over from when he was vetting everything himself which basically means he was evaluating everything personally and the rule wasn't really followed (my interpretation). Why it would be like that either I don't know, perhaps because nobody can agree on ratings and shit like that.

    But at the end the question of RaCka and Nasty cheating is inconsequential because the only game where big 'destruct' had a good performance was a blowout already. Therefore despite the fact that the useless rule was broken it had no material impact on the outcome of the match most likely.

    People say that Mhz is digging through scoreboxes and shit but I see his side as well. He only included it on like the last line but it is possible that Power threw that match. If you accuse people of throwing a match there is hardly anything you can do to convince people. Unless you had some proof of it there would be no way to convince people hard enough to have anything done. Yet if you have actual evidence that they broke a rule there's a better chance at getting justice.

    At the end of the day the loser is this game's competitive integrity again. I don't blame the players who will endlessly abuse terrible rules because even if you removed one there are thousand others.. when you could just fix the rules. Imo this really came down to the fact that the rule was terrible.. it shouldn't matter your score in other leagues and I feel like anyone half intelligent who read the rules would immediately see the stupidity of that rule. In a way he is doing the game a favour because without some controversy staff would probably never change it, just copy paste it from season to season until someone did exactly what RaCka did. It's not a highway robbery like some other controversies, destruct shouldn't have been playing but it didn't have a huge impact. Just what I think, willing to hear other views.

  20. #80
    who u Crescent Seal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
    fuck claus, did you really need to go back through the TWL site and TWL forum to sweep through every scorebox to prove a point? You need to cool off with getting so pent up over a petty argument or you'll have an early grave my friend.
    this ^

    gettin kind of scary bud
    1:Rasaq> i scrub really hard with toilet paper so little pieces of it get stuck to my anus hair and then later on when im watching tv i like to pull them out slowly because it feels pretty good

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